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1/72nd Revell Gato Wolfpack

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Re: 1/72nd Revell Gato Wolfpack

Postby JefftyToo » Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:46 am

Managed to scrape together a few hours back on Harder today (Sunday, 6/16).

You guys know me: I can't leave well enough alone. So I attacked those first-attempt not-quite-right keel floodholes again—first with Evercoat, then with CA and baking soda when the Evercoat didn't work, in an attempt to reshape them more satisfactorily. The CA attempt proved fairly successful: I was able to reshape them to an improved, better-sized oval. Of course, they're still not perfect and never will be. Neither will any of the forthcoming others. But if I can just make it so their flaws don't stand out—sort of cancel each other out upon casual viewing—I'll be happy.

First shot shows the improved holes. Only two: the one on top showing that familiar Evercoat blue, and the one underneath that.

From there I went on to drill and scribe some more holes for future drilling.

The second shot shows a batch of holes that have been scribed, drilled and reamed out but not filed to shape. Note the one down in the lower left corner. I had attempted to file that first-of-the-batch to shape and wound up making it much too large. It's so easy to let the styrene carry you away. You'll see I've already filled it with CA too, for reshaping later. If from here on in I'm not REALLY CAREFUL, I'll wind up with this exact same setback on many of these holes!

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See you next weekend,
JeffP
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Re: 1/72nd Revell Gato Wolfpack

Postby JefftyToo » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:15 am

Have finally been hard at the Harder again the last few days, and as of just minutes ago have finished off her keel floodholes. These were far more challenging and time-consuming than I ever imagined. I had seriously hoped to have them done weeks ago, but you know how such plans usually go, fellas. Anyway, they're far from perfect, but they're not bad either, as the photos below will show.

A little background: Originally I'd planned to use the commercially available floodhole template from...I believe it was Nautilus Models—correct me if I 'm wrong because I've likely forgotten. But I had trouble with proper alignment of said template with the Revell kit, and I decided to abandon it for something more scale. At first I planned to replicate the floodhole pattern found on the keel of my Fine Art Models 1/96 scale USS Cod (SS-224), accurate in all respects (to my knowledge) from the hyper-research I know was engaged to produce the model. But I found out through my own Web-check later that the pattern on my Gato class Cod model is actually from a Balao hull, and thus not accurate for Harder either. I'd say "Shame on Fine Art," but I'm sure they did the best they could in the pre-Internet days when the model was produced. They had reproduced an accurate fleetboat floodhole pattern after all (a rare thing in itself)—just the wrong one.

Scott Trosper and "Salmon" (Tom Chalfant—do I have that right? apologies if I don't) teamed up to come to my rescue by producing a properly scaled template taken from plans found on the Web for USS Paddle (SS-263)—a mere few hull numbers along from my Harder's SS-257...and thus very likely an accurate pattern for my particular Gato boat—certainly more accurate than a Balao boat's holes from dozens of hull numbers away. This is the pattern/template I used, as shown in previous posts and also below. Note to all other Revell Gato builders: Scott/Tom's template was easy to see, use and cut, and made this tedious floodhole process much more do-able. My humble thanks, guys.

Pics of the cut out holes are below. I may tweak them a bit more here and there with some fine sandpaper as flaws continue to make themselves known to my jaundiced eye over the rest of the build. But for now I'm considering them "done". (Note that from straight above the holes are revealed as fairly regularly shaped. Viewed from any angle, however, and they appear misshapen due to the constantly changing thickness of the hull's inner walls—this from the varying amounts of epoxy buildup used to hold the hull halves together.)

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Now on to more of the build...

JeffP
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Re: 1/72nd Revell Gato Wolfpack

Postby BoomerFunker » Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:23 pm

Unlike SOME members of the Gato Wolfpack there has been no liberty put down at the Kisler yards. No joking and smoking on the beach in Carmel, begging stick time from some unfortunate passersby.
No sir, just hard at work.
I totally hate you guys...

Anyhow between building a fence and the general uptick on the social calendar I haven't gotten much done and in fact what I did get done was met with failure and frustration. Today, finally, I have some success to report. I have been working on Trigger's periscope sheers and airborne miscellany which differ very significantly from the Revell kit part which I am now convinced, having looked over many many reference photos, they just made up.

Kit Part

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Trigger's Sheers

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They say you can break down a complex scratch-build into easier sub-parts. Then "they" leave the room. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to go about it. First thing I knew I would need, regardless of the way I went about it, was an alignment jig to hold the three tubes at the right spacing and more or less parallel to each other.

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That worked fine. The main difference I saw between the kit part and Trigger was that the middle tube had fins that ran the full length and not the truncated ones on the kit. I decided that my methodology should be to build all the tubes and all the fins then slide separate platforms down to the right level on the sheers glue and fill. I got quite far with this scheme. I made another jig to glue the fins on and even had some lightening holes drilled.

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My goal was to keep the fore and aft fins on the middle tube a continuous run. I'd fill in where the oval gaps were, slide a platform down. Glue, then slide the next...
Waitaminute. The second, third and fourth platforms were all to small for that to work. I'd have to cut them into threes and piece them in as I went. Oh, THAT would look good.

Obvious I know. Well I know now. You're probably that smarmy "They" guy who was so much help earlier. Anyhow, I'm a moron, but as the say on MythBusters, even failure provides information.

That was a couple weeks ago. Today, armed with my negative information, I saddled up and tried a different way. First I tore the old ones apart, cleaned up what I could salvage, and measured and cut all I couldn't.

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I used the alignment jig and built the entire frame verticals and horizontals as square as I could. Instead of trying to fit all the fiddly curved oval bits into each cavity I decided it would be easier to fill the whole space then subtract all the material I didn't need. Toward that end I laid thin strips of sheet inside all the open areas then simply traced the openings through the framework onto the sheet strips. They were mounted together so I could pull the whole thing out and draw all the shapes I wanted to keep (or toss) in each hole. The theory is now I can cut them apart and slide a single thin piece into the openings to mimic Triggers' look.


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I pulled the template out, drew all the various ovals and fin shapes in pencil on it. I wondered what the best way to remove the open areas would be. I tried a round punch, and then a pin vise with a 1/8 inch bit and a hand file to try to widen the holes to the desired shape. Too inaccurate and too long were the respective verdicts. Then I remembered the spiral saw bit I had with the Dremel stuff. I chucked it in the drill press...

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I put some scrap sheet behind it to keep it from flapping too much, and found that if you go slow and work out to the edges like a router it works pretty good.

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So, this is where I'm at.

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The holes need smoothed a bit yet and all the port and starboard fins will need placed. Lots of fiddly work yet but I think I'll get there this time.
TomK
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Re: 1/72nd Revell Gato Wolfpack

Postby salmon » Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:17 am

Tom,
That is a stroke of genius! Really, really nice work.
peace,
Tom
If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.
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Re: 1/72nd Revell Gato Wolfpack

Postby Scott T » Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:47 pm

Great work Tom.
If it is any comfort I was home working in
the gravel pit all last week. :mrgreen:

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Re: 1/72nd Revell Gato Wolfpack

Postby JefftyToo » Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:45 am

Magnificent, Tom. And we did much miss you pondside with the smokes and the jokes.

JeffP
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Re: 1/72nd Revell Gato Wolfpack

Postby PaulC » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:30 pm

You are inspiring me, Tom, regarding shear mods. Keep blazing the trail.

Had a chance to do some targeted work this afternoon. The WTC saddles are cut down, I've begun to savage the hull opening and my WTC is sitting pretty inside the hull. I'm following Salmon's approach to avoid splitting the hull at the waterline. So far, so good. :D

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Also test fit my new G-Factor props. These are cast in brass and look really cool. They appear to be exact matches with the kit parts and really dress up the boat.

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Warm regards,

Paul Crozier
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Re: 1/72nd Revell Gato Wolfpack

Postby BoomerFunker » Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:36 am

Thanks for the encouragement guys...

Here is the completed basic structure. There is a lot of detail work to go.

Now I think I want to make a cast of it but am a little worried I might tear it up in the process like those covered wagon I-beamsI tried earlier. I am interested in how you'd go about it. Two-part mold, sure, but where would YOU put the pour sprues for instance. What mold release would you use for the silicone. Do you pretreat the part any special way before you pour silicone around it?

I'd be glad to pour a copy for anyone that wants one of course. It's Trigger circa 1944 but adaptable I think.

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Meanwhile President Roosevelt, and US Navy Secretary James Forrestal have formed a blue-ribbon panel to investigate rumors of cost overruns and delays at the Porteous and Porteous Shipyard on the west coast. I and my team will be investigating these allegations in person to prepare a report for the War Department. It will be determined, I'm sure, that Capt. Porteous, has been slandered by these accusations which are probably inspired by fifth-column propagandists. I mean after all, Victorian era sea monster submersibles? What absolute bunk.
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Re: 1/72nd Revell Gato Wolfpack

Postby Scott T » Sat Nov 16, 2013 5:35 pm

Question for Tom on the periscope shears, actually on the side of the sails.
Did you leave the side of sail area enclosed or open it up like the sides of the drum?
Picture from web search. I am looking for ideas how to do it.

Scott T

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Re: 1/72nd Revell Gato Wolfpack

Postby ssn705 » Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:37 pm

Wow, I just read through the entire thread up to this point. Amazing work and good insights. One day I have to dive into my Gato, and I will certainly use this thread as reference.

Cheers,

Dave
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Re: 1/72nd Revell Gato Wolfpack

Postby BoomerFunker » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:44 pm

Thanks Dave. I think I speak for us all that it's been a lot of fun. Get going on that Gato! This is an open thread and we'd love to see your progress.

That goes for the rest of you too!


Scott,

Sorry for not responding quicker. Between my dad passing on and a sharp seasonal pickup at work, there hasn't been much time to reply much less DO anything on my boat.
After looking at your posted pic it appears Drum and Trigger will have a very similar profile. The Nautilus Models aftermarket resin sail is really very close to this references in that regard
so I won't have the issue of cutting it down from the Revell kit. Seems straightforward if a bit scary.

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Re: 1/72nd Revell Gato Wolfpack

Postby ssn705 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:38 pm

I'd love to dive into it, but some day I am gonna have to start doing my real job, so I think for now I am gonna stick to a 1/144 Guppy III project I am prepping for.

Cheers,

Dave
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Re: 1/72nd Revell Gato Wolfpack

Postby wlambing » Sun Dec 22, 2013 4:55 pm

Man, did the building part of this thing die off quick!!!!!!!!!

B^(
"If you ignore the problem long enough, it will go away. Even flooding stops eventually!"
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Re: 1/72nd Revell Gato Wolfpack

Postby PaulC » Sun Dec 22, 2013 7:02 pm

Yes, my building time became EC/SCR time such as it was. I haven't been able to get back on track. Shame on me! :D
Warm regards,

Paul Crozier
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Re: 1/72nd Revell Gato Wolfpack

Postby JWLaRue » Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:45 pm

Paul,

I know the feeling! :)

-Jeff
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