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USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby Tom Dougherty » Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:22 pm

I can remember back in the mid 1980's when the physicists at Rockefeller University (where I was on the faculty) were all fired up about the early versions of String Theory. It has apparently evolved into a mathematically consistent theory, but deals with items (one dimensional objects called strings) at the Planck scale. A particle accelerator as big as the galaxy (literally) would still not have remotely enough energy to reach that scale to test the theory.

Prior physics predicted the Higgs boson back in the 1960's, and the LHC has the energy range to confirm its existence (just as the W and Z bosons of the weak force were predicted earlier and observed in the 1980's). String Theory has absolutely no hope of ever achieving anything even remotely near the energies necessary to observe the strings. So, my understanding is it all hangs together from the math standpoint (and there is the latest variant, M Theory). It has led to new explorations and discoveries in exotic mathematics, but the theory cannot be tested experimentally, not now or any time in the future. So, as you suggested, take it on faith.... Of course you have Brian Green writing books and appearing on PBS Specials extolling it as a theory, and to some extent, representing its predictions as a "done deal" as to how the universe operates. The late Richard Feynman, Roger Penrose, and Glashow have all criticized string theory for not providing novel experimental predictions at energy scales that can ever be attained.

(Just another day on the SubCommittee Bulletin Board discussing String Theory....) "Say, Bill, do you have to compensate for the total mass of strings that make up the quarks that make up the nuclei of the atoms of your carbon resin fiber when trying to adjust the buoyancy of your boat?"
Tom Dougherty
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby Tommydeen » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:12 am

m theory hu.....I did a search on it.......oh man the stuff I found.....and people get paid to do that stuff....wow
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:49 am

Almost as hard to believe as some of the theories themselves Tommydeen.

Interesting that you should mention Richard Feynman Tom. He is (or was) a very incredible individual. As you know I have a quote for him at the end of my e-mail messages. It seems fitting for this discussion.

""The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." Richard Feynman
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:25 am

UPDATE 97

Greetings All!

It’s kind of a sad day in Norman today. Greenling version 1 left port yesterday for her final home in Albany, Oregon and there is a large vacant spot on my shelf. :(

Seriously though, even though it was hard to part with the model, I made it for Travis and I think it will mean more to him than it does to me. It will remind him both of his time on the ship and the time we have spent together in the field working in creeks. And eventually, I will make version 2 to fill the void on my shelf.

I did get a lift in the form of laughter when I reread Tom’s comment…

“(Just another day on the SubCommittee Bulletin Board discussing String Theory....) "Say, Bill, do you have to compensate for the total mass of strings that make up the quarks that make up the nuclei of the atoms of your carbon resin fiber when trying to adjust the buoyancy of your boat?"

Ahhhhhh, what a fun adventure this has been!

But it isn't over yet. Stay tuned for Part 2. I don’t know when it will be, but eventually I’ll scrape up the coin to get version 2 printed and the adventure will continue.

Thanks again everybody for all of your help!

CHEERS!!!
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:38 am

UPDATE 98

:( :cry: :cry: :x :?: :cry:

Greenling version 1 limped in to her new port in Albany yesterday, after a treacherous journey through winter seas. Preliminary damage reports are that she sheared all of the blades on her screw and broke a rudder. :cry:

It must have been a rough voyage, because I took it to our local pack and ship shop and had them pack it. I watched her do it and she did a great job. Bubble wrap galore, and an elephant couldn’t have eaten all of the peanuts in the box. It looked like it could have held its own at the annual Engineer Club egg drop competition. I can’t imagine the forces the box took to inflict the reported damage. Fed Ex must have held their own package drop contest.

I am kind of regretting not packing it the way I had originally planned, which was inside this awesome shipping tube that my USS Wisconsion plans came in. The tube is 3/8” thick and Greenling fit in it. My first thought was to put Greenling in the tube, with padding. I also thought about building a little box around the aft section. In the end, I opted to let the professionals pack it, and take the liability for it. My way might have worked better, but it might not have. At least now it is covered. I only took out $100 insurance on it, both because I didn’t think anything was going to happen to it, and because other than my love and labor, I don’t have much invested in it, and I don’t think you can insure emotional value.

A full report with pictures is expected later today (I hope). I will post them when I get them and will be taking them to the pack and ship shop. $100 would at least pay to get another screw printed.

As Travis always says, "It is what it is."
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Sun Dec 22, 2013 7:40 pm

UPDATE 99

Travis sent me some pictures of the damage today. It isn’t pretty. So you can see the screw got, well, screwed. The rudder got pushed forward such that the hub broke the forward part of the rudder itself. Travis has the piece that broke off and thinks he can reattach it without it being too noticeable. He is also going to try to remove the screw and duncecap. Let’s hope all goes well.

Image

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On another note, Click2Detail (AKA 3Delivered), the people that printed the fairings and detailed sail assembly for me, contacted me about putting my models up for sale on a website they are Beta testing. I have uploaded them, and they are posted, so I think that you can now buy them. You can see them here.

https://click2detail.com/browse_products.php

What’s more, remember way back when, when I was thinking about doing the Permit Class display, showing all 14 of the subs in the class in 1/700 scale. Well, I sent the files to add these models to the site as well. I sent them yesterday (Saturday) so they haven’t been posted yet. The images I sent with the STL files are shown below.

This may perhaps be an over simplification, but my earlier research revealed three separate hull lengths (actually two, the double screw of Jack extended it a bit over the longer hulls) and two different sail types within the class. The variations of sails and hulls created four, what I called, Types. (Perhaps, Styles, Designs, Configurations would be better?)

Five different parts were made to make the models (not counting the screw). The aft hull section (gray) is used on all four types. The short forward hull section (cayan) is used on Types 1 and 2. The long forward hull section (green) is used on Styles 3 and 4. The small sail (blue) is used on Types 1 and 4. The large sail (magenta) is used on Types 2 and 3.

I still haven’t decided what to do about the screws. I don’t think PE is an option, unless whoever buys it obtains PE propellers somewhere else. I know, from previous discussions, that at least 2 different screw types were used, but I don’t know what boats used what screw. The web site allows the designer to upload plans and decals (which I plan to do), so at the moment, I’m thinking that I could provide a scaled template of the propeller blades that could be used to print on card stock and cut out. I haven’t tried it, and perhaps there is a reason you can’t, but it seems to me that if you bent the card stock in the shape you wanted it, primed it, sprayed Future on it, and painted it, it would look pretty good. Any thoughts?

Image

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As far as I know, (which as you know isn’t much), the only 1/700 Scale permit class is my Type 1. If you want to make the other boats, you are out of luck. What do you guys think? Do you think anybody would want to buy them?

Note too, that the current design is made for the model to be mounted on a vertical surface, for mounting on the wall, so I have holes in the models to accommodate mounting rods. I think it provides a somewhat unique way to display them, especially for long-term modelers, which I am not, who may be lacking shelf space for any more models. But, it limits the buyer’s options. Do you think it would be better to remove the holes and let the buyer drill them if that is what they want?
I would really like to hear your thoughts, and remember that means the good, the bad, and the ugly.

CHEERS!!!
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby Scott T » Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:10 pm

Russ,
I would leave the mounting holes but maybe make them small pilot holes ( I'm thinking fishing line size)
so whoever gets the boat could drill them out or fill them. Also pilot holes on the other side if they wanted
to mount them facing the opposite direction. I would think a set of mounting pilot holes on the bottom
might be a good idea. if they did not get filled people would think they were ballast drain
holes.
The propeller? hmm?
Maybe make the hub with slots to accept a blade made from thin plastic (from pop bottle, plastic package
material) or paper. They would need a full size blade pattern at 1:700 scale then.

Scott T
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:14 pm

Happy Holidays Everybody!

I really like the idea of pilot holes Scott. I have already filled the large holes in and I think that I will take your advice and drill 0.02” diameter holes on both sides and the bottom.

As for the screw, Thomas says that they started using a new version of the high resolution printer that they have been using that uses a much stronger material with the same resolution. He is going to print a few screws over Christmas to see how they turn out. If they come out good, we will use those. If not, then I will provide a template of some sort for cutting out plastic, card stock, or paper.
Thomas also said that they sold two T-28s already. Cool!

Repairs to Greenling have begun. I hear that the damaged screw has been removed successfully, with no damage to the dunce cap. I have yet to receive the replacement screw Pavel said he would send. If the broken rudder has been repaired, I have not heard about it yet. Travis said he thinks that he can fix it, because it broke cleanly, but he didn’t have any super glue. He is hoping to do it without repainting. I sent him a picture of the paint I used, in case he can’t, and told him to spray it into a cup or on newspaper and brush it on with a small brush. I’ll let you know how it goes when I hear something.

On another note, my dad’s display is finished, none too soon. I will be giving it to him tonight. It came out just as I had envisioned it and better than I expected. A couple of pictures of it are shown below. If you want to see more pictures, go to my WIP, if you haven’t seen it already:

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_su ... 57366.aspx

Designing and building the display was a lot of fun, from start to finish. From the initial tracings of the plans, to attaching the final aircraft to the base, it was a thoroughly enjoyable experience. At every step along the way, I thought of dad; the excitement he must have felt when he flew for the first time, the anticipation of his first solo; the pride he felt when he earned his wings; the challenge he faced switching to duel engine aircraft; the boredom and terror he must have lived through in Vietnam; and the many experiences he must have had along the way.

I relived, through dad’s eyes, some of the stories he has told me over the years, including the time he was almost shot down flying over the Ho Chi Men trail in Vietnam, and the time when, as a co-pilot flying a T-29 with Major Federicci, a vehicle crossed their path during takeoff and he was able to pull back on the controls enough for the aircraft to just clear the wayward vehicle. Building the display, gave me even more respect, for a man I truly love and admire.

I LOVE YOU DAD!

Image


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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:20 am

UPDATE 100


Happy New Year Guys, although it’s not that new anymore.

I thought I would update you on the status of the Greenling repairs, and the news is good. Pavel, of Admiralty Model Works, who I did some CAD work for, printed a new screw and dunce cap for me at no charge. The quality of the print is much better than the original so that, unlike the original, very little work will be required to use it, just a little sanding, priming and painting. I hope to spray primer on it tomorrow and paint it Sunday or Monday. Thanks Pavel!

Image

Image

On another note, the 1/700 scale Permit/Thresher class submarines still have not been activated on the C2D site, because they are doing a test print of the screws. If the screws print adequately, they will be included as part of the kit. If they don’t, I will make a template so the modeler can cut them out of card stock.

C2D has printed the parts required to make the four styles of ships for me (except the screws). The pictures below show how they looked as I received them.

Image

Image

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The parts required depend on which ship in the class you want to build. All versions use the same aft part of the hull, but the forward hull section and sail used depends on the particular ship. To my knowledge, there aren’t presently any models of the longer hull and larger sail members of the Thresher class. These kits will allow people to more accurately model USS Haddock (SSN-621), USS Flasher (SSN-613), USS Greenling (SSN-614), USS Gato (SSN-615) and USS Jack (SSN-605). Hopefully it will be available soon.

And the adventure continues…

CHEERS!!!
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:25 am

Hi Guys!

I primed the screw, but have yet to paint it. I hope to do that tonight.

I just wanted to let you know that the 1/700 scale Permit class series is now available:

https://click2detail.com/browse_product ... artIndex=9
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby Tom Dougherty » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:44 pm

Wow, a terrible shipping experience!! I guess in retrospect it might have been a good idea to wrap some sort of protective heavy cardboard cylinders around the delicate parts. Of course, those could just have easily have damaged the delicate parts with enough jolts. Wonder if the Delivery Truck drove over potholes?

Nice little Permit kits. Unfortunately, I think their price point they have selected is just too high. Even the relatively expensive 1/700 OKB Grigorov submarine resin kits are nowhere near this expensive.
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby Tom Dougherty » Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:54 pm

The replacement screw looks decent.
You might want to advise Pavel for the future that the trailing edge of the J-props are not straight but do have some slight curvature.

See below photos of J series propellers:

Image Image
Image Image
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:58 pm

Greetings All!

I hear you about the price being a little high, Tom. That is the main problem with 3D printing at the moment. If it wasn’t so expensive, I would have printed both Greenling and Batfish and likely wouldn’t be doing the small-scale aircraft that I have been doing lately.

I made the 1/700 scale models for fun, for myself, with the mind that I still might make the Permit/Thresher display I thought about, what seems ages ago now. When Click2Detail (C2D) advised me they had started selling other’s models I thought I would post them. Even though they are slightly expensive, for those wishing to model the longer ships, or those with larger sails, as far as I know, they aren’t available anywhere else. An added benefit, is that, even though it doesn’t show up on the C2D website, the sail has more detail than any I have seen on the market. If they don’t sell, no sweat, the small-scale aircraft are selling like crazy.

For those who haven’t seen them yet, you can see them at:

https://click2detail.com/browse_product ... artIndex=9

As for the screw, I noticed that too, and I’m not sure how that happened, as I know I fixed this before. Perhaps he used an older file. In any case, it is what it is, and I’m (or Travis) is going to have to live with it. That is assuming I ever get around to re-painting it.

CHEERS!!!
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild - zincs

Postby bechinn » Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:43 pm

fyi - zincs are used to minimize corrosion of the hull or other of the ship's parts exposed to the (sea) water. I don't remember the specifics, but think of the ocean as the electrolyte in a battery. Two different kinds of metals in the 'electrolyte' induces an electric current between the metals. One side is called the anode, the other the cathode. The 'zincs' gradually corrode away instead of the steel hull.

This is a very interesting series, especially with the 3d printing!

/s/ Barry Chinn
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby PaulC » Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:00 pm

Tom,

What boat is this?

[quote="Tom Dougherty"]
See below photos of J series propellers:

Image
Warm regards,

Paul Crozier
<><
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