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USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby Tom Dougherty » Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:47 pm

I just put them in the same location, not thinking that they would be in a different location when they were painted on. Oh well, I don’t think that I would have much luck removing them at this point since I already applied the Future. At least I have some justification for putting them where I did.


I agree that I would NOT try to remove them at this point! The painted hull and sail numbers are really how these boats were "as delivered". The hull numbers were quickly removed, the sail numbers were around maybe a bit longer, and then the magnetic numbers were used. The only inconsistency is that the hull number is on you model, which would indicate "as built", with the corresponding sail number below the sail plane. But, leave it alone at this point!
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:01 pm

Shhhhhhh! Don’t tell anyone. Maybe nobody will notice. :P

Speaking of decals, I picked up the order I placed and now have what I need to complete the model… Maybe! I need 4 G’s for 2 GREENLING’s and the package has 5. This doesn’t leave me much room for error. I was going to try the tape method again, making sure that I cut close to the number so there wouldn’t be any overlap. That’s what got me in trouble last time I think. But now I’m not sure. It’s not like the other method is fool proof. If the tape hits an adjacent letter when you are putting one on, it gets partially lifted and needs to be redone. Right now I’m thinking I will use the tape method for “REENLIN” and put the G’s on the ends. Hmmmm….
:?:
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:35 pm

UPDATE 72

Well, I’m still bummin’ about putting the sail numbers on in the wrong spot. :(

My buddy said that he noticed it too, that when he first got on the ship they were painted on, but were very soon removed, due to snooping Russian fishing trawlers. He said that they then hung them under the sail. I wish I would have thought to ask him. If I could take them off and redo them, I would, but I guess, such is life. Also, it looks like I will be ordering another package of letter decals.

I put them on using the reverse tape method.

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The port side came out pretty good.

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The Starboard side didn’t come out quite so good. The “ING” is all out of alignment.

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I was thinking that I could just remove it and replace it, but if you look in the photos, I neglected to align the two sides properly, blindly worrying only about getting them in the correct vertical location. DOH!

This means that I have to redo it and I only have one G left. :(

I could just remove the “REENLING” and they would be pretty closely aligned, and I wouldn’t have to buy a whole package for one friggin’ G. But I don’t know. We’ll see.
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:44 pm

UPDATE 73

After my last post I realized that I didn’t have anything to lose by just trying to add the “REENLING”, and I could use the practice, so that’s what I did, letter by letter this time. As you can see below, the application went so-so. The letters were in good alignment, but the G didn’t go on so well. I think it was scratched to begin with.


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…And it still isn’t quite level with the port side letters.

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So, another set of decals it is.

Rats!
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby Scott T » Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:15 pm

How about the next time you print up a sub you could also print out a stencil with name and numbers.
Do you think they can print something that small?

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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:39 am

You know Scott, I really hadn't given that any thought, but I don't think you could print it so that it would be durable enough to use, at least not for the draft numbers and ship name. It would print the letters and numbers, I think. The problem is that the template plate itself would need to be too thin to be able to use it. Perhaps in metal? But I think that, even then, you would have trouble preventing the paint from running under it.

In any case, I have removed the names and ordered another set of decals. They are supposed to arrive Wednesday, so you know what I will be doing over the Fourth.

And I'm still bummin' about the sail numbers. :(
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby Tom Dougherty » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:57 am

I think that part of the problem you are encountering may be that parts of the lettering stick better to the tape you are using for alignment than they do when you burnish the letters onto the hull.

For overall alignment of groups of letters. one trick is to get some rubber bands with flat sides, carefully slide them over the circumference of the model and adjust them (eyeball & measurements) so that your two sides have a temporary "alignment grid" to place the letters at the same horizontal location on both sides of the hull, so that the beginning and end of "Greenling" are not staggered.

And I'm still bummin' about the sail numbers.

We know how this is going to end. You will agonize for a while, and then fix it. The important point will be to have a strategy to fix it with minimal effort and damage.
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:09 pm

Well Tom,

You are right about the agonizing. If I thought I could get the decals off without doing damage to the paint job, they would be off of there already. If I hadn't clear coated it, they would be off already. The question is, "can I carefully remove them using an Exacto knife without getting through the clear coat to the paint?" because that is the way I think that I would do it.

You are also right that I will probably end up changing it, so I might as well bite the bullet, and give it a go. Perhaps I'll try it this evening.
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby salmon » Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:13 pm

Could you use a 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper and lightly wet sand (Glue a sliver of sandpaper to a toothpick using CA) the area enough to remove the transfer? I have done this in the past, but it will take a light touch.
If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:47 pm

UPDATE 74

Man! You guys are GREAT! I really appreciate the input.

Sanding probably would have been worth trying Tom. Unfortunately, I couldn’t wait until this evening, so I carefully scraped them off with the tip of an Excato knife. I think it went pretty well.

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If I hadn’t of had to scrape off some of these decals before (although it was before the Future) I would be bumming out, but the image below shows the last time I had to scrape off the numbers…

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…And where the old numbers were is obvious, yet once I applied the Future it disappeared. The present “scars” look a bit more pronounced, but I think that is because I went through the Future this time. I’m hoping that when I spray it again with Future that it will go away. We will see. I have resigned myself to the fact that if it doesn’t, I will be sanding the sail and repainting it.

Like Travis, my friend that I am building the model for says, “Expectations diminish joy.” If I prepare for the worst, I won’t be disappointed. Also, like I have said before, modeling to me is a fun exercise in getting from point A, the starting point, to Point B, the desired Point. When I screw up, I just move my starting point to point C. It is still the same game, trying to get to the desired point B. Still, let’s hope we don’t go to point C.

Another issue I have is that my compressed air can is getting low. I would think that it would be really bad if I ran out part way through a coat, so I think I’m going to spring for a compressor. Harbor Freight has a 3 gallon, 100 psi oilless air compressor on sale for $49.99. I think I’m going to buy one.

Also, I think I will go ahead and put the numbers on where they belong before clear coating again. If I have to sand and repaint it, so be it. I will have plenty of decals. And I could use the practice.

CHEERS!
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:53 am

UPDATE 75 – 7/3/2013
Good Morning Guys!

I don’t have a lot to report today. I still haven’t put the decals on, nor have I bought the compressor yet, although I suspect I will do both later this afternoon and evening. I did hook up with my buddy Wroyce, with the wood shop. We discussed what I wanted, talked about old times and shared new stories over a couple of beers, but the drill bit he needed was at a job site he is working on. He was going to call me yesterday so that we could work on it. He never did. Instead, I received a text later in the evening with this photo.

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Hopefully he will have time later today for us to get together to finish it. Knowing him though, there is a good chance that he will just do it. Also, the plaques should be printed any day. They asked me if I needed them by the 4th and I told them I wasn’t in any big hurry since the base wasn’t even started at the time, but there is an outside shot that it will be ready today as well.

Anyway,it occurred to me that this model is being built by a friend for a friend, made possible by many friends. I guess it is just a friendly project.

CHEERS!!!
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby Tom Dougherty » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:27 pm

I received a text later in the evening with this photo.


What are we looking at?? Is that some sort of cradle to hold the model??
If it is, I would offer that a cradle is great for a working R/C model but definitely NOT the way to go with a display model, as it will be lifted in and out and be handled and that will scratch the paint job even with a clear top coat. Don't give people the option to handle it!!

In my opinion, the best option for a display model is either mounted on blocks
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or mounted on brass rods
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:37 am

Happy Independence Day Everybody!

Yes Tom. That is a cradle. I posted the design for it in Update 63 on 5/25/2013, and as I’ve said, the intention is that the model WILL be handled because it is really cool to hold it, and turn it, and look at it from every angle. It’s not going to be in a public place or anything, it will be at my friend’s house ( :( if I can part with it) and I would bet only a small handful of people would ever touch it.

Still, I wasn’t planning on a case for it either for the same reason, but just in the short time since you recommended a case, it has collected dust. True, we don’t run AC, so it probably collects dust faster than it will at my buddy’s house, but as you know black shows dust clearer than day, so I am reconsidering the case. At least, I think what I will do is give him the link you gave me (http://www.grandpascabinets.com/ ) and he can buy on or make one himself.

Remember too that this is the 1st generation model. The 2nd generation model with all of the detailing is designed to be on rods, like shown in your picture of the two very nice models. I have even built nut recesses into the model to accommodate them, and plan on having bases similar to the ones shown and have a glass case for it. This 1st generation model is just getting the cradle, which when completed will be lined with felt to minimize scratching.

One question… If it’s OK for R/C models to be in cradles, what is used to protect their paint jobs? Or does it just not matter as much if they get scratched? (OK, two questions.)
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:13 pm

UPDATE 76

Good Afternoon Guys!

Well, I redid the sail number decals to get them (more or less) in the correct spot. I stuck with the tape method, but modified it a bit. Instead of using glass from a picture frame, I used clear plastic from a blueberry container. I think the thickness of the glass made it difficult to keep my reference line in the same place as it was dependent on my viewing angle. The thinner plastic should eliminate (or at least reduce) this effect. I also taped a piece of 10 sections to the inch graph paper to the underside.

The image below shows the first number secured upside down to the scotch tape, which was secured to the clear plastic piece with masking tape. The graph paper definitely helped.

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After I had the numbers laid out, I carefully removed the masking tape from the plastic, cut one side off, just past the number, and trimmed the top to make sure it didn’t hit the sail planes when I was trying to position the numbers on the sail. Both sides went smoothly and the letters went on perfectly. I found that an old paint brush handle, that long since lost the brush part, was a perfect scribe. It was small and hard, essentially like a pencil without the lead, which is often recommended.

I did the starboard side first…

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…Then the port side.

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I am happy with the way they came out, but of course am still concerned that the old numbers are going to show up, having zip, zero, nada experience with this. I was thinking that, in case they show up very faintly after the clear coat, that maybe I should sand a square area around the letters. Maybe I could live with a slightly discolored square area more than obvious, even if faint, numbers. What do you guys think? Do you think that they are going to show up? Would the squares be a good idea? Should I just resign myself to sanding and repainting? As always, any and all advice will be greatly appreciated.

CHEERS!!!
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:29 pm

UPDATE 77

Hi Guys!

The decals are all on. Once again I used the reverse tape technique, using the new method.

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I also used Tom’s suggestion of the rubber band to align the text with the text on the other side of the hull, and I think it came out pretty good. A very small portion of the R didn’t stick, but it wasn’t on the backing either, so it may have been damaged and I didn’t notice it. Anyway, it’s good enough for me I think.

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All that’s left (I hope) is to spray it with Future again, and then a possible DullCoat. First I have to figure out how to use the new compressor I got, and what pressure I should use. I’ll keep you posted.

CHEERS!!!
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