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USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:11 am

Hey... That's Cool Scott! I don't mind a bit!
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:30 am

UPDATE 67

All of the parts for the first generation model, except the screw and Dunce Cap, which will be put on at the very end, are on the ship. I put the two fairings on this afternoon (yesterday that is).

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With the hull completely assembled, I prepared for the final painting round to touch up the mars I have accidentally put on the surface. I will be spraying the oxide red on at first light, but decided to go ahead and mask the anti-skid, so that I wouldn’t have to do it later. I began by printing the templates I used earlier and taping them to the metal bar I have been using as a cutting board, with a strip of Edge Lock tape between them. Below, you can see the aft end. Note the rectangle for the cutout of the radar fairing.

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I then cut around the perimeter, and discarded all but the mask I needed. The forward end is shown below. Note the cutout for the GNATS Radar Jammer Fairing.

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I then carefully laid these pieces in position and then filled in the remaining area with the same Edge Lock tape.

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At this point I turned what was a submarine into something that looks more like the fuselage of a jet airplane as I masked off the top in preparation for the spraying I will soon be doing. To avoid the masking tape peeling off the Lock Edge tape I just applied I used paper with masking tape only around the edges. I then went ahead and masked over the entire thing for fear that the paper could bleed through if painted. This step probably wasn’t necessary but at this point it’s better safe than sorry.

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Also, I would really like to finish painting it today, but I think for safety sake, I better wait at least 24 hours before I mask over it.

I’ll keep you posted!
:D
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:13 pm

UPDATE 68

Well, I put 2 light coats of the oxide red on using the last of the paint in the can. I painted it this morning, and just now removed the masking tape and I am happy with the way it turned out. The shiny spots on the bottom are gone. And the seam line is Muy Bien!

It looks good enough that I am half tempted to not add another coat of flat black, but there are enough mars and smudges that I think it would drive me crazy if I don’t fix it, so I will mask it tomorrow and paint it. I just hope I can get as clean of line as I have now.

Enjoy!

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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby Tom Dougherty » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:07 am

Once you are happy with your paint job, I would shoot a couple thin coats of clear gloss, decal it, and then 2-3 coats of clear dull coat. That way, you have a few "layers" between your paint job and the outside world.

For permanent protection, you might want to look into a case with glass for display. If you don't want to make one, this manufacturer has a good reputation. http://www.grandpascabinets.com/ He has many "standard" sizes (http://www.grandpascabinets.com/display-cases.html) as well as custom built orders.

Thanks again for all the postings! It has been fun to watch, and I think a very interesting look at CAD and 3D Printing capabilities.
Tom Dougherty
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:33 am

That was exactly the plan Tom, except I read that Dry Transfer go on better before clear coat. What do you think?
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:28 pm

UPDATE 69

Hi Guys!

I masked the bottom and gave the top another coat of flat black. It looks a lot better, but there is one little spot, behind the starboard side diving plane that the black ran under the masking. Dag Nabbit! And of course I was out of red oxide. Although a trip to the local auto supply store remedied that, it’s too bad I had to buy a whole can for 2 or 3 quick sprays. Oh well, I’ll have it when I get to build the detailed model.

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I still haven’t decided how I am going to do things after I fix the remaining smudge. As I said before, I have never used dry transfers before and I read through a Google link that it is better to apply dry transfers before clear coating. I don’t know if that is true or not, but even if it is, I’m not sure I like the idea of handling the model as much as I will have to apply the decals without protecting the paint job. What do you all recommend?

As for the glass case Tom, I think that is a good idea, and I will definitely make one for the detailed model. This model is so fun to handle though, that I don’t want to isolate it behind glass. There really isn’t anything you will be able to break off of it, except possibly the screw, if you aren’t careful, so occasional cleaning shouldn’t be a big problem. I appreciate the information on the case manufacturer, as I may have to use them. My access to the wood shop has been curtailed due to the fact that there is a new shop manager and I am no longer a Landscape Architect student. :o( I think I have a Plan B for the stand on the current model, but we’ll see.

And of course Tom, you are more than welcome. Remember, you set my on this adventure when you provided me with the plans. THANKS AGAIN!!!
Last edited by rdutnell on Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby Tom Dougherty » Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:54 pm

I’m not sure I like the idea of handling the model as much as I will have to apply the decals without protecting the paint job. What do you all recommend?


I would definitely get a good pair of nitrile gloves so that oils from your fingers don't mar the finish, and minimize handling as much as possible. The letters are rub on, and the trick is to get the alignments correct before you transfer. They make a tool with a rounded nub to help with the dry transfer- here's a link to the tool: http://www.hyatts.com/art/chartpak-burnisher-338-A25000. Might be worth the price. as it works better than a pen or pencil for even transfer pressure.

As far as a display case, I can guarantee that without it, some person will pick up & handle your model and will break the propeller or a dive plane or rudder.

Quick question- the last photo shows a detailed sail with access hatches & masts. Where is that from??
Tom Dougherty
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:57 pm

Thanks Tom! I thought about gloves before I de-masked after painting the final coat of flat black. In fact you can see them in the background of at least one of the pictures of my previous post.

I probably have a tool very similar to the tool you provided the link to, back in the late 70’s as a draftsman, a lot of the lettering I did was with Chart-Pak rub-ons. I think my chances of finding it though are slim and fat. :D

The more I think about it, the more I think I might stick with the wet decals for the draft numbers, because I know how that works and that it looks good. Plus, I think that aligning single rub on letters both vertically and horizontally would be a tough proposition, especially on non-flat surfaces.

As for the case, I’m going to take my chances, and hope for the best. The reason why I am willing to do this answers your last question as to where the detailed sail is from. You may recall that I have designed 2 different versions of Greenling. The first (plans shown below), the one I am currently working on, was essentially completed by 11/27/2012 (Update 4), with the exception of the screw and dunce cap that were completed 12/1/2012 (Update 5).

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Over the next several weeks I improved the model by adding details, essentially completing the model (shown below) by 1/7/2013 (Update 32). Detailing the sail was covered in Updates 25-31 (1/3/2013 – 1//6/2013). Unfortunately, even though the model wasn’t printed until 3/6/2013 (Update 38), my buddy inadvertently printed the older undetailed model. He had it printed at work for me and I suspect that he really isn’t supposed to do that, so I didn’t want to push the issue. Beggars can’t be choosy!

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I haven’t given up on the detailed model though, so I had all of the components of the detailed sail printed by Click2Detail, along with the 2 fairings on the present model that I sliced off of the detailed model (the mushroom anchor, also sliced from the detailed model was printed by Shapeways) to add some detail to it. I only received the “printed” parts from Click2Detail on 6/14/2013 and presented the parts in Update 65 the following day. I put it together the next day (Update 66).

Needless to say Tom, I was very happy with the way everything turned out, and because of my working relationship with Pavel at Admiralty Model Works will eventually get the rest of the model printed, including the sail again. In fact, I understand that he has already printed the bow section (Part 1) and that everything came out nicely, except that somehow I left one of the baffles out of the MBT flood holes on the underside, but he said that he could either print the whole part for me again, or just print a baffle and I could put it in by hand. He said he would send me the parts (he has printed some other parts too), so I will wait and decide after I see it.

As for the current sail, I was thinking about making a small model out of it, similar to the Balao Memorial, that has the fairwater, bridge and masts on display (see below). That, I would definitely put in a small glass case, if I can find something that small.

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So Tom, and everyone, this is just the second stage of the journey. There’s still the final push to the summit ahead!

CHEERS!!!
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby Tom Dougherty » Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:04 pm

I probably have a tool very similar to the tool you provided the link to, back in the late 70’s as a draftsman, a lot of the lettering I did was with Chart-Pak rub-ons.


Chart-Pak rub ons...my entire Ph.D. thesis graphs were done with those! When I think of the hours spent on those (crap, misaligned again! Remove and redo), and what can be done (better!) in 30 minutes today, I sure don't miss those! Chart-Pak and Letraset....
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:17 pm

UPDATE 70

Greetings All!

I hear you Tom, I was the only draftsman for the College of Engineering ’79-’82. I did a lot of graphs and schematics for the Professor’s publications. Now most of it can be done in Excel and AutoCad or Photoshop. I used the Chart-pak rub ons sometimes, but mostly I used those Rapi-O-Graph pens, with the scribe that I would use to trace letters from various size templates. I got pretty good at it. Fast too. I’m glad we don’t have to do that anymore, but I am also glad that I had to. Same with computer punch cards. :D

Anyway, progress on the 1st generation Greenling model is continuing. The touch up painting went well, even though it took me way longer to mask it off than it did to paint it. Still the trouble area looks a lot better now.

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After painting it and removing the masking tape, I decided to put the ship numbers on the sail. To do this, I first laid down a strip of the Edge-Lock masking tape onto a piece of glass. I then taped a piece of scotch tape, sticky side up onto the glass, and laid the numbers on it upside down. In the image below you can see one completed and removed from the glass (top) and the other one completed and ready for removal.

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I then taped the numbers into position on the sail and using a PDA stylus I rubbed the numbers to attach them to the sail…

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…And removed the scotch tape.

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I then repeated the process on the other side.

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Unfortunately, the “1” on the starboard side didn’t completely adhere to the surface and is slice off on the bottom. I haven’t decided at this point whether to live with it or remove it and redo it. I will probably end up doing the latter.

With the success I had with the sail numbers, I decided to try to use this same method to apply the draft numbers. I started by printing the rudder and bow section to scale and drawing a vertical line and lines at the base of the numbers. These drawings were then taped to the underside of my glass sheet (stolen from a picture frame… I didn’t need that picture anyway :P )

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From here I followed roughly the same procedure as before, attaching the numbers upside down to the sticky side of the scotch tape…

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…And taping it into position.

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I was rockin’ and rollin’ at this point, until I removed the tape. Parts of several numbers did like the “1” and didn’t stick. The profanity monster, who isn’t much into taking pictures, showed up around this time, but I was able to remove them using an Exacto knife with minimal impact. I was thinking at this point that I would just use wet transfer decals, which I would apply after spraying Future, so I decided to put the bow numbers on, which turned out to be a mistake. Using the plans I eyeballed where the numbers were supposed to go and attached them in the same manner as I did the sail numbers.

Well, being perhaps a wee bit stubborn, I decided to try the draft numbers on the rudder again, using a different method. This time I taped the template to the rudder and applied the numbers individually directly to the rudder. This worked a lot better after I learned how to do it, but at first I had to redo a couple of numbers. After the rudder I did the bow, and by this time it went really smooth. Unfortunately, it became obvious that although I had the bow numbers in the correct longitudinal position, I had put them on to low (like below the waterline). I had about decided that I could live with it when I did a Google Search on “Removing Dry Transfer Decals” that said that scotch tape would take them right off. Well, rather than testing it on the test pieces I had made when testing my PDA stylus burnishing tool, I hastily went straight to the model. And it worked… partially. It friggin’ took off about 1/3 of them. Needless to say I wasn’t a happy camper at this point as I was forced to remove it. Well if I had to remove them, I might as well put them in the right spot so I removed the numbers on the other side too, and redid them. The problem, as you will see in some of the images below, is that it left large smudge spots in the paint job. The port side isn’t as bad because I figured if the tape took off part of the numbers, perhaps repetitive application and removal would remove all of it. It worked fairly well, but I still had to scrape some, though not nearly as much.

Being now completed with the model, and ready for the Future, I glued the screw in place so that it rotates on the dunce cap shaft, and took pictures. Enjoy!

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In this photo you can clearly see the “smudge”. Do you guys know of any easy way to fix this? Should I mask around it and spot spray it?

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In this image you can just see the smudge at the lower right of the numbers on the bow.

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On the plans of Permit that I have, it shows the ship name on the stern sides, and in a picture I have of Greenling, in what appears to be the same configuration as mine (no sonar array tube) the name appears to be present.

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Because of this, I decided that I was going to put the name on my model. The problem is that I don’t have letters, just numbers, and neither does my local hobby store, so they ordered them for me, but they won’t be here until Monday. Since I want to apply them before I spray the Future, completion will have to wait until next week. This leaves the base as the last thing to complete. Unfortunately, since I can no longer use the wood shop, I have to come up with another alternative. My first thought was that I could have them 3D printed so that the model would be 3D printed top to bottom, but I don’t have a spare arm or leg, so that option is out and I’m looking for Plan C, which is to see if a friend of mine, a carpenter can make it for me. I will keep you posted.

CHEERS!!!
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby Pirate » Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:45 pm

It's a good idea to put at least one clearcoat on before the rub down type, but you do realize you'll need to recoat after applying the type so it doesn't just rub or scrape right off, right? The clearcoat will seal them on.

Instead of a special tool to rub down the type, I just use a really dull pencil, worn to the point where it's a nice rounded nub. I gently rub the type to get it to stick. Then remove the plastic sheet with all the type on it, and use the wax paper over the rubbed on type to burnish it all the way on good. The type you put down first has a tendency to stick to the plastic sheet when you go to put on the next letters and pull back up.
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:37 pm

Live and learn Pirate.

I have never used rub-ons for models before and I had read that unlike wet decals, it is better to put dry ones on before the clear coat. The good news is that I can put a coat or two of clear coat on this week if I want to and then just reshoot the area around the names after I put them on the first part of next week. Then finish it off with a coat or two of dull coat.
I hear you when you say that they have “a tendency to stick to the plastic sheet when you go to put on the next letters and pull back up.” That was the reason I had to redo several of them.

Thanks for the advice!

On another note, I think I have my base problem resolved. My buddy who I hadn’t seen in a while now has a complete shop! I may be going over there in a few minutes to talk about it (and drink a cold one or two.)

CHEERS!
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:18 am

UPDATE 71

Good Morning Everybody!

Thanks to Pirates advice, I decided to go ahead and spray a couple of coats of Future on Greenling yesterday. Since I received mixed advice as to whether you should apply dry transfer decals before or after the clear coat, I figured that it must be more a matter of personal preference and that it didn’t really matter. Since I think that I will be handling the model a bit in the process of putting the name on the sides, I thought that it would be a good idea to go ahead and spray the future first to protect the paint job, and am I glad I did. It looks great!

It didn’t start out so well. I gathered everything together, the paint gun, the compressed air can, the Future, newspaper and my test piece and went to my make shift paint booth on the side of the house. (O.K., there’s no booth, but it’s sheltered and the CiC doesn’t complain when I spray there.) I laid out the newspaper, laid the test piece on it and filled the spray gun jar with Future and… Crap! :evil:

My little El Cheapo spray gun that I’ve used on one previous model was toast. The plastic tube, built into the cap, that slides into the gun was broken, and part of it was stuck inside the gun. An attempt to get it out jammed it farther down inside of it. Even if I could have gotten it out though, I didn’t have an extra one, so a trip to Harbor Freight was in order.

Upon arriving at Harbor Freight, I faced a dilemma. Of course they didn’t have replacement caps, so the dilemma was whether to buy another El Cheapo gun for $9 to finish this job, or go ahead and buy the nicer air gun/compressor package for $90 that I am probably going to buy at some point, like when my current compressed air can runs out. I stood there in the aisle staring at the two, like a deer in headlights, for quite a while. I wanted the compressor but didn’t want the POed CiC that would go with it. I decided to wait and face the music after the can runs out and bought the El Cheapo.

When I got home I sprayed it on the test piece and it worked good, so I applied two coats, waiting 2 or 3 hours between coats. The results couldn’t please me more. The minor surface mars are gone, including the spots where I had removed the misplaced decals. I had no idea what to expect, thinking that the Future could make them stand out like a sore thumb, so I was pleasantly surprised to see that they had vanished. See for yourself.

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It looks like a spider has done an inspection of the screw but other than that I am really happy with it. Nearing completion at this point, the model far exceeds my expectations when I started this project, and I am really satisfied with the way it has come out so far. I’m not completely finished though. Let’s just hope I can get the name decals on without doing any damage. After that it’s a couple of more coats of Future, and then perhaps a coat or two of dull coat. I say perhaps because that was my original intent, but I really like the way it looks shined up with the Future, and may leave it that way. Oh well, I have some time to think about it.

Especially since my old buddy stood me up. Twice. The first time he called and apologized and set another time. The second time he didn’t and I still haven’t heard from him. He sounded all positive on the phone, said he had the wood and a lathe, and that we could knock it out easily. I don’t know what happened. Perhaps that is why I haven’t seen him in a while? I’ll figure something out.

My biggest problem though is that I initially built this model with the intention of giving it to another friend who was on Greenling, but as I perhaps said before, I don’t know if I am going to be able to part with it. :lol:

CHEERS!!!
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby Tom Dougherty » Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:13 pm

Ummmm, how to say this, after all of the work you have done...
I have never seen a hull number on a submarine sail in the upper location that you have on your model. Photos of that class show the number under the fairwater planes, more or less centered on the sail.

Below are some photos of Greenling when she had the sail number.

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Last edited by Tom Dougherty on Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Tom Dougherty
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:39 pm

Well Tom, what can I say?

You scared me for a minute, and perhaps since I attached the number to the sail, I should have put it as you have shown. But you may recall the “Bermuda2” file that shows the removable numbers that I put on the detailed model shows the numbers in this location.

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I just put them in the same location, not thinking that they would be in a different location when they were painted on. Oh well, I don’t think that I would have much luck removing them at this point since I already applied the Future. At least I have some justification for putting them where I did.

Thanks again for all of your help!
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