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1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

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Re: 1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

Postby wlambing » Thu May 02, 2013 9:38 pm

Guys,

The tubes and small diameter pipes connecting them, poking out of the portside upper shears alongside each 'scope are the hoist cylinders for the scopes. All other lines running on the outside of the shears are electric cables to/from sensors and lighting. For full height extension, the cylinder didn't really have to move the scope all that far. The actual lift rods were connected to the scope inboard the hull on the yoke, just above the eyepiece box where you peek through. The yoke had the lower rotation bearing in it. For an example; the Type 2F attack 'scope barrel was @44' long. Lift it 20' and you've moved the head out to a ship's periscope depth (keel to head) of 64' (discounting some variables for the sake of explanation).

Bill
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Re: 1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

Postby wlambing » Thu May 02, 2013 9:46 pm

The hydraulics section of The Fleet Submarine textbook has some great diagrams. The periscope section also has some neat pictures.

B^)
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Re: 1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

Postby Tom Dougherty » Thu May 02, 2013 10:20 pm

The tubes and small diameter pipes connecting them, poking out of the portside upper shears alongside each 'scope are the hoist cylinders for the scopes. All other lines running on the outside of the shears are electric cables to/from sensors and lighting.


Bill, I am now totally confused.
My understanding of the two hoist systems was that with the electric hoisting system, the wire ropes were attached to the scope by the hoisting yoke. The wire ropes in turn went over pulleys to a cable drum, which was driven by an electric motor. For the hydraulic hoist system, the plunger rods were attached to the bracket connectors on the hoisting yoke. The hydraulic control valve raised and lowered the periscope using ship's hydraulic system. I am not understanding which part is mounted exterior to the periscope shears.

Could you please point out the feature you are referring to on the below portside photo of Lionfish's fairwater? I clearly need to get this straightened out in my head!
Thanks!

Image
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Re: 1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

Postby wlambing » Fri May 03, 2013 4:53 pm

Tom,

I'll give it a shot, old friend!

If you look at the masthead light and go straight aft (right), there is a "tube" that parrallels the 'scope barrel. There is a similar "tube" alongside the aft 'scope. There is a much better picture of the port side of the shears a few pages back in the build thread (pg 8) . In that one, you will see the cylinder ends and the hydraulic lines that attach to them. They emerge from the shears at the same level as the DF Loop base. This might be a Balao class upgrade. I'll have to dig out some pictures of Silversides and see if she's got the cylinders, too. Maybe Gatos used the electric winch. I'll let you know what I find.

Take care,

B^)
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Re: 1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

Postby rdutnell » Fri May 03, 2013 5:31 pm

These are the items I'm talking about.

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Re: 1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

Postby salmon » Fri May 03, 2013 7:19 pm

On earlier models I did not see it....yet. There are still a ton more to go through, but here is a photo of USS Barb from 1945 and it looks like it is there on the Gato class boat, maybe a late war addition?
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Re: 1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

Postby wlambing » Fri May 03, 2013 7:46 pm

Yes!! The circled (ovaled? :wink: ) items are the 'scope hoist cylinders!

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Re: 1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

Postby Scott T » Fri May 03, 2013 10:39 pm

This photo of Batfish show the cylinders on the port side of the pericope shears.

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Starboard side cylinders.

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Previous shears look like they may have been larger and the cylinders were enclosed.

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Re: 1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

Postby salmon » Sat May 04, 2013 5:13 am

Scott,
The prior images were Gato class so maybe, like the anchors, opposite side verses Balao installs. You may be right on the diameter of the shears because as I looked at older pictures (prior to 1944), I did not see these cylinders. Not saying they were not there, because on some photos it was just plain impossible to make out the details or maybe they were in a larger shear. Hopefully someone has better details.
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Re: 1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

Postby rdutnell » Sat May 04, 2013 7:37 pm

UPDATE 54

I’m having a great time in St. Louis, even though it has been raining and I am not getting to play with Batfish. I have been able to read the posts that everybody has been posting and really appreciate all of the comments you guys have provided, and it seems like we are all learning a bit more about the ship together.

While in Ft. Worth at the Flying Saucer, I posted that the pix Tom posted were “the first pix I recall seeing where the supports extended past the antenna to the new/old ‘SD mast’". The beer must have taken effect, because I had seen this before and had decided to use the newer configuration.

Ronald, you are perhaps right. It may indeed be that my model has more detail than can be printed, even though I am designing it so that nothing is smaller than 0.05” in diameter because that is the limit my buddy said that his SLA can print. I really have no clue, though, how it will print, and like you, am curious how it will come out.

Besides learning that the items I was asking about are the telescope hoist cylinders, I also learned that the last item I made and posted was the “DF Loop”. After completing the DF Loop, and before I left on my trio, I also finished the telescope hoist cylinders. My buddy is taking a nap, so I thought I would post the process I used to make them.

I started by drawing a vertical line at the location of the cylinder on the forward mast.

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I then drew a 0.34’ (0.028” at 1/144 scale) diameter circle and extruded it down into the shear.

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Then copied it to the aft shear…

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…And subtracted them from the shears.

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Having cut the recesses for the cylinders, I then made the cylinders themselves using an extruded 0.2’ (0.0167” at 1/144 scale) diameter circles.

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The alignment of the cylinders relative to the recess can be seen in the top view image below. The green rectangle was also extruded to provide support for the cylinder.

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Although it is slightly visible, it will not be apparent to most observers and will provide much needed support for the cylinder. This support was copied to the other shear as well.

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At this point I added the support brackets seen at the top…

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…And made the parts for the top caps.

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I then attached everything to the shears and recolored it.

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Once again, I don’t think it is perfect, but I think it is a fair representation of the real deal.

CHEERS!!!
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Re: 1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

Postby Scott T » Sat May 04, 2013 8:22 pm

Looks great! I believe there are also tubes on the starboard side of the shear as I think you can see the lower end of a tube going into the shear on this photo.
It would be parallel with the other tube on the port side with a centerline throught the center of the tube and center of the periscope.
So it will be two hydraulic cylinders pulling up on each side of the periscope evenly.

Image

Great pictures on the USS Cod details to help with details on the Batfish.
http://www.williammaloney.com/Aviation/USSCod/DeckViews/index.htm
Click on the pictures of this page to see gallery of other pictures
http://www.williammaloney.com/Aviation/USSCod/index.htm
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Re: 1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

Postby rdutnell » Mon May 06, 2013 2:28 am

UPDATE 55

Happy Cinco de Mayo Everybody! (O>K>, officially Seiz de Mayo.)

With everyone asleep again, I continued on with the periscope shears, next adding the flanges at the top of the shears. I started with an extruded circle…

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…Then used a triangle to make one flange…

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…And copied it around the top of the shear.

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Because the two tops appear to be the same, I copied it to the other shear.

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At this point, I read Scott’s post pointing out that the telescope hoist cylinders were on the starboard side as well as the port side. There are several ways that I could have accomplished this, but I decided, because of the symmetry to do it by dicing and slicing. The image below shows the cut lines I used to accomplish this with the section I replaced cut out.

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The section with the cylinders was then rotate/copied to the opposite side.

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The aft shear was sliced in a similar fashion…

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At this point I made the platform on the forward face of the forward shear, and even though I think that the “cage” will be made out of photo etch. I made it too.

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I also made the platform to support whatever sensor that is at the front.

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Re: 1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

Postby Scott T » Mon May 06, 2013 1:36 pm

Man that really looks good.
Pick time. Looking at the picture if the bottom cylinder is at 7 o'clock the top cylinder should be at 1 o'clock. :wink:
This would makes both cylinders on the same centerline of the periscope. I think the way it is drawn now would put a side
force on the scope and not lift with even force.

Scott T

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Re: 1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

Postby wlambing » Wed May 08, 2013 4:47 pm

Dudes,

Did a little poking around in the land of pictures and figured out that the conversion to hydraulic hoist cylinders was a late war ShipAlt. USS Hake (SS 256) received them in a 1945 overhaul. This was part of her upgrade to Barge Buster overhaul.

Have fun, Happy Modeling!

B^)
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Re: 1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

Postby rdutnell » Sat May 11, 2013 2:02 am

UPDATE 56

That makes sense to me Bill. I think I recall reading that Batfish went in for overhaul in ’45, prior to sinking the 3 Japanese submarines in 76 hours that she is most famous for.

And thanks again Scott for both the nice words and the picking. If I had thought it about it a little more, looked at your pictures closer, or read your previous post more carefully, this particular pick wouldn’t have been needed. I guess that is what I get for being impatient and staying up late to play with it.

Anyway, I’m back home and after a busy week I finally had some time to redo the hoist cylinders. The symmetry that made doing it wrong so easy wasn’t there to do it right, so I essentially had to remake them, as I did on the port side. Before I did anything else, I had to slice the incorrect cylinders out, so I drew the by now familiar slice lines

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I sliced out the unwanted cylinder, and using a slice from the “pre-cylinder” version of the drawing I have repaired the slice to its pre-cylinder condition.

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I then turned on the 0-misc layer and rotate/copied the circles and polylines I used to create the cylinder on the port side 180 degrees to the opposite side of the shear…

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…Then copied them to the other shear.

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I then extruded the circles for the cylinder recess…

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…And subtracted them.

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Next I extruded the cylinders (along with the back supports)…

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…And made the collars and caps.

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Then I reshaped the support brackets and extruded them.

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The last step was to join everything together.

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CHEERS!!!
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