roedj wrote:Could someone please tell me what type of ballast system is being used in that box type WTC from Hong Kong.
It appears to be using a water pump ballast tank. The water pump is mounted in the 2nd bulkhead down from the bow end of the boat.
Thor wrote:You know, the built in box is a pretty good idea for this kit! The hull is pretty thick which means it would be a good candidate for that. Because of the very low freeboard I think we could add an old fashion simple pump system and snorkel and away for go for about $50. I think I'm going to give that a whirl and see how it goes....
The real XXIII used a single hull design. Having no separate pressure hull within a free flooding outer hull. The set up in the eBay auction is kind of similar in that regard. Utilizing most of the kit's figure 8 hull as the pressure hull making it a partial dry hull model. Unlike a true dry hull, the shafts of the control surfaces do not penetrate the pressure hull. Penetration remains the same as in a cylindrical WTC. Again, similar to the old 32P box.
salmon wrote:O.k., here is the flip side both Manfred and David are using the same wtc, the D&E. Technology that has been tested, I have not seen a build (does not mean there isn't) showing a working one from Hong Kong. Big Dave is probably testing one too! That box type wtc needs more weight to bring it down because it is a larger volume of air. As far as opening the hull horizontally or vertically that, to me, is a personal preference. Does any of this help?
Actually they are not the identical Sub-Driver. Manfred's is the standard 2.5" which is longer in length. The Sub-Driver, specifically for the Bronco, is shorter in length, to allow more room in the bow area for possible future functional torpedo launchers. The box style pressure hull has been used in RC subs dating back to the 1950s.. Skip Asay and Mike Dory can both attest to that. (I've been doing my reading on this forum for 7 years now, that is a lot of reading lol) The thing that was somewhat unusual, in this case, was using the model's hull to make up most of the surface area of the "box" (technically not a box, but I call it that). Though I am sure, this has been done before..
I think the method of opening the hull is a bit more than personal preference. David's horizontal cut required a lot of post cutting clean up work, resurfacing and re-contouring. Which utilized the expensive EverCoat filler and other products. In addition, weld line detail was lost and had to be recreated. It was a fair amount of work, to make the model look like it was designed and produced as a horizontal cut model. David did an excellent job at it, but he is also a professional at doing that kind of work. The average person trying to RC this kit, will not have anywhere near his experience. Probably only minutes of experience, in comparison.
I agree with Big Dave, that it is a shame to have to wreck such nice "plastic" and rebuild it simply to open up the hull. The "Hong Kong Box", I like that term.. The Hong Kong Box method, might require less post cut work, with its four thick and sturdy looking acrylic bulkheads that match the contours of the hull halves. God I wish I had a real workshop like Bob the Builder.. Then all this Evercoat filler stuff and horizontal dremel cutting would be less daunting. Can't you just shake the box and a sub falls out? lol
The other observation is that the top of the Hong Kong Box sits beneath the boat's waterline. So the top of the ballast tank is actually beneath the water line. This contradicts with the typical cylindrical WTC set-up where the top of the cylinder is even with the waterline of the model. A third case, is the 32P ballast tank, engineered by RC submarine mass production legend, Simon Smith. This tank did not sit fully beneath the waterline. A portion of the 32P ballast tank sat above the boat's waterline. Matter of fact, the entire ballast tank sat on top of the 32P pressure box lid, there was no tank located within the box itself. Yet, the 32P managed to dive and surface statically.
Perhaps the long term ballast tank building veterans on here can explain why the top of some tanks are located at the waterline, others beneath it and still others above it?
Maybe we will even hear from the actual Hong Kong Box builder himself? Could he be lurking on this forum..
If someone can manage to get this model configured as a reliable static diver and offer their configuration for sale, for a total cost of $500-$600, less radio equipment and pitch controller and make it construction friendly for the below average builder with his "minutes of RC sub experience" (one of my favorite Merriman quotes when he responded a long time ago to a newbie who thought he knew it all), I think you will find that more than 10 people will attempt to convert it. I keep hearing that the 32P XXIII, in particular, was prevelent, but I never saw a 32P model, in person, in my life, until I joined this forum. I did remember seeing a few of their ads for their Type VII in Model boat magazines in the 90s though. Come to think of it, the only one I have seen in person is mine and it has never been in the water. This model was advertised as "almost ready to submerge", yeah right lol! I love that! Mine is anything but almost ready to submerge
Why do you think I bought two Broncos!!?? Hopefully something will get in the water sometime soon over here in the desert..
Remember folks I was the propeller advisor for this kit, to the great, He Who Shall Not Be Named! That is kind of funny, but it is what it is.. I just want a XXIII, that dives and surfaces, moves around in the water, scares a few fish, and has a scale looking prop.. I've joined the Subcommittee, to Andy's detest (Andy I am part English, I am just messing with ya, course that new knowledge may not make you very happy either
Maybe this year I will finally get a boat wet.. That will be the day, when Warpatroller gets his **** together and gets a boat in the water. Would be kind of cool.. We shall see.. Maybe the Hong Kong Box, with Merriman fittings kit and prop, and the ole 32P Pittman motor spinning the wheel at the stern.. This is it, do or die! This hobby is for the ELITE! This ain't no day sailin..