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1/96 Borei-Project Nemisis

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Re: 1/96 Borei-Project Nemisis

Postby Wayne Frey » Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:31 am

Hull spread.
The first hull I got, I had a few years ago and bought it back recently. I tried every everything to bring it back together. I bound it, and left it in the direct Texas sun in the 100 plus summer time sun. I tried hair dryers, and everything else brought up on the website here. It would come close to being normal, then spring again later. My last effort was the blowtorch on my workbench. Definately got that bugger hot enough. But alas, she spread again. I then realized I was spending a lot of time on a hull I trusted less and less to be worth using in the future.
Origionally, I had calculated three hulls cut up and spliced together to get where I am now. However, I got the fiberglass G12 tube for about $150.00. I thought that was a heck of a deal. No hacking, correct size (diameter), and the bonus of being G12. I am telling you, it is smooth inside and out, and SOLID. Almost zero flex in all that lenght. Perfect. I got the Akula kit I used for $300.00, used, but unbuilt. So 450.00 got me what you see here, along with extra length of the tube used for G12 index tabs, and a little more still which will come into play later shaping the missle deck (you will see what I am thinking when I get there.
The Akula kit came with the masts,bow planes, which I will use, and other photoetch parts. So, around $450.00 is not bad at all. A decent kit will cost you all of that, if not a heck of a lot more. And still worth it. Look at the price of a 1/96 Engel Typhoon. In USD, it is around 8-900.00 as best I can tell.
But, while so far it has been an awsome deal, and the tube was a huge find( and saving me from splicing several hull kits together),but, it is not about the money.
I knew the Borei the Russians built was started from an unfinished Akula. I did not see why I could not do the same. Honestly, I am a little suprized no none else has tried this.
As for the warped Akula hull. I have a purpose for it. I will hack it up and use it for about all it could be good for. Index lip strips for the lenght of the fiberglass tube. It will be the right thickness,etc. I will start with the lower hull,since it is ok. The upper is the part that just will not pull together. I refuse to waste any more time trying to fix this one. I think I have several days in trying to do just that.
Hey man, I cannot in good conscious sell that hull again knowing it just is no dang good.

Pete. Turning. Oh yea, I am concerned. The stern planes on the plans do look about 1/4 thick. Interesting the Ohio turns well. I actually have been looking at different bow thrusters. I wonder if it has to do with the screw on the Ohio, or the rudders. Since I am going to be using the Seawolf pumpjet, that would answer that. But I would rather throw it in the water with the bow thruster already on there if it will be swinging wide. I am thinking key in the bow thruster on full rudder,motor on or off.

Now, since I only need the length of the straight part of the hull for my project, that would leave me with the sushi parts left over like I posted above...Hmmm. Big Dave? 8)

Index lips for tube-to- stern/bow are next. And torpedo tubes.
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Re: 1/96 Borei-Project Nemisis

Postby Sub culture » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:30 am

Unless the hull is bent like a banana, just make some formers up out of epoxy glass sheet, brace the hull, tack in with cyano, so that hull is true, then glass them in with some epoxy and cloth, or some other type of reinforcement. The hull will stay put then.

The tubing you got has probably been cured on a heated mandrel, so will be more stable than a handlaid hull.

Personally, where possibly I prefer radial separation the best (think Engel Lafayette), as that maintains the strongest hull.
'Why are you staring at an empty pond?'

Want to dive your boat in crystal clear water? Then you had better Dive-in- http://www.diveintomodelsubmarines.co.uk
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Re: 1/96 Borei-Project Nemisis

Postby Wayne Frey » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:40 pm

I actually made some formers that fit the Akula hull (visible earlier in the thread), and that was part of the reason I made them. The other was this hull was so long, I thought I may need them. But, like I said, a few days invested in trying to fix it, and it is still as far off as it ever was. It is simply not worth my time. I bought another hull that is way better all the way around, for a minor fraction of the time it took me to work and buy it.
I would not at all be suprized to see this hull swell out between the formers I made. Again, not worth it.

Sometimes, a pig is a pig, even in a dress. Not worth taking the chance for this project.

The tube was oven cured per the ad description. Go this link to see it:
http://rocketrywarehouse.com/product_in ... ucts_id=90
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Re: 1/96 Borei-Project Nemisis

Postby Wayne Frey » Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:40 pm

WHY am I the only one with an active buiild thread?? Come on now, somebody build something!!
So, I put the fore and aft index tabs on the G12 tube to attach the bow and stern sections
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The index tab is gapped at the very top. That is so no bubbles whatsoever get caught at the top in a dive.
Don't know why, but I always think about that. Anyway, another pic.
The excess resin will be filed back later for a tight fit. I roughed up the surfaces on both sides of contact,especially since it is so darn smooth! I came back a day later and put on the upper bow.
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I spent a day messing around with this. One of two torpedo tube braces I made. One of the holes is in the wrong place. I fixed it 8)
I lighted it up significantly from cast.
I took my dremel on it stand, set it to vertical, and set the stop for 10ths below the surface of the part. I then put in a cutting head, and "milled" each side just a little, making a fairly decent part. I put the slot in the center, and left the top of the part cast away from the bow part, again, to allow water to do it's thing without that getting in the way. No air pockets.
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I fixed the hole location after I put the part in the hull, and let the tube show me where it should pass. I then went cave man, and hogged the hole into a slot, until I got it straight. Then, I mixed up some epoxy resin (West Systems), with micro ballons. When you do that, it is white, like the part!
I then broke out the Playdoh. I packed it all round the backside of the torpedo brace, so I could pour some to the contact points on the hull. I also put it on the backside of all the tubes on the brace,so I could pour the resin into any gaps, and to secure the tubes to the brace. Toward the tip of the bow, on the inside, I packed a lot of the secret stuff, Playdoh, around the tubes, and whenever possible, made little pockets around the tubes.
Then you go outside, and just pack the heck out of the tubes-to-hull point. Then I got a clamp, and clamped the hull nose down, beside some shelves I have in the garage. I then poured the epoxy mix into the tube-to-hull area pockets, And on the edges of the brace, and on the edges of the tubes in the brace, filling everything in.
It is important to use Playdoh. Why, you are wondering..? It is edible!! :wink: You may get hungry while doing all this! :D
Anyway, next after this, clean it all out, and reverse the entire process on the other side(outside), of the hull. Pockets around the tubes, other side of the brace, etc.
Then some cleanup, cut the tubes down, and we will start looking like what I have on the X tail Akula. (Which should be here tomorrow BTW).
Notice how much thinner the part is compared to the spare I set in the hull for you to see the difference. Cutting suface weight where I can.
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It goes slowly forward, but it goes!
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Re: 1/96 Borei-Project Nemisis

Postby Wayne Frey » Sat May 12, 2012 6:15 pm

This is a slow part, and messy!!!! Set up and pour resin, let harden, then reverse everything, and do the other side (inside/outside) Then cleanup, which is coming, will take a bit. Just scraping, filing, sanding on cleanup.

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This is not THE way to do this by a long shot. I just know it works. How? :D
Look!

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My X-tail with the finished tubes. I had the same mess when I did it. And just to show I am Akula hull nuts, check this out:

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I wanted to show this too. I put the bow on, and did not have a super-clean straight cut between the main tube and the bow. I was not worried about it. What did matter was I put it on straight to the tube. Once the index tab was glassed on to keep the two halves together, I did something again that I tried before. I took wax paper and laid it over the gap. I then put blue tape, bigger than the wax paper, so that it would seal, over that. I then filled the gap with epoxy resin with micro ballons, which added a visible white to the mix. Let dry, and remove. A smooth connection/filler between the two. It will still have to be sanded. And it did not fill the whole channel. But I have several opprotunities to finish filling it in, as you will see.

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Last edited by Wayne Frey on Sat May 12, 2012 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1/96 Borei-Project Nemisis

Postby Wayne Frey » Sat May 12, 2012 6:45 pm

So, to finish for today, I roughed up the hull tabs, and put the stern section on with epoxy resin. The stern part had a pretty good angle cut.
Still did not matter. I set everything on top the plans, which insured correct alingment and length. Made sure it was "clocked" to vertical as straght up, and marked with a pen, exactly how to secure the hull.
I will come back and resin in the gaps, just like the front.

Starbord side, the hull parts actually touch at the bottom. On the port side, you can see a pretty good gap. It will not matter.
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And, while this is going on, I added some micro ballons to the resin, I put some in the low spots around the torpedo tubes on the outside, some into the unfinished gap in the front, and a little in the gap n the stern/main tube. But the resin was getting done, and so am I for today.
BTW, there is no missing I got my X tail Akula back. Here it is for scale comparision:

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Re: 1/96 Borei-Project Nemisis

Postby Wayne Frey » Sun May 20, 2012 7:16 pm

Ok, so this part is kinda boring. But I am posting mostly to see some board movment.
I do want to say right here that Seawolf 1/72 scale is awsome!!
Anyway, here's this week:
Got some parts in:
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Got in this:
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An Oscar photoetch with a spare hatch throw in? Yep. Going to be using some parts off of here for both the Borei, and the X tail Akula.

Also got in my Sombra Labs. Got one for each boat, and a spare. Most of the electronics between the two boats will be the same.

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So, Cleaned inside and out around the tubes a little more, bringing them closer to smooth and done.
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As I go along, if there is a pour to be done, to reduce waste, I go back and fill in different things. So, I used the old wax paper under blue tape again, and set up the stern-to-center gap. I just pour in at the top (with toothpicks and popsicle sticks) into the gap at the top, and let it fill the gaps.
Actually works pretty good.
And, for those who are wondering, I am unconcerned with the beginning of the raised deck gap. A missle deck wind up over all that later.
A small spot on the front gets filled too.
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Nazdarovia!!!! (To your health!)
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I secured the Borei today to my shelves, ever so gently, with C clamps. I then wet the junctions of the upper and lower bow sections with epoxy resin, and taped them tightly together. I cut strips of fiberglass cloth, guessing three thick should suffice, and laid the first one down inside with resin. A few hours later, I slipped back out in the garage, and put in the second layer. I will throw the third one in later this week, So that this weekend I can start finishing getting the lower fit to the upper.
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Re: 1/96 Borei-Project Nemisis

Postby Wayne Frey » Wed May 30, 2012 8:50 pm

You were wondering what happened? 8)

Yes, it is going forward, but slowly on boring stuff. I am filling gaps/joints with mini-pours and have to wait 24 hours between pours. There are several. So, don't worry. Just waiting until it is worth posting. Keep in mind, this is a weekend-only project. Work keeps getting in the way. Ordered parts are still inbound.

Keep the coffee warm, I will post some pics before long.
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Re: 1/96 Borei-Project Nemisis

Postby Wayne Frey » Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:17 pm

What? You thought this was a dead build? No way! Attrition will be the only thing that stops this and the X tail!
However, 100 plus summer weather I just did not feel like messing around in the garage. Once summer faded down to 90 and below, I will work.
So, here is what I did.
First, I used my spare akula hull and cut out my index lips. They are slightly curved, and to my way of thinking, would fit inside the tube nicely.

They did.
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Now, to show how I fixed something.
With the tubes glassed to the bow and stern sections, I lost a little in the cut, and another problem (more on that later).
The inex lips worked great. However, the lower half when slid into the bow was too low. I jammed popsicle sticks into the sides where the lips are, "lifting" the tube to flush with the bow. I would fill in the gap in the sides shown in a minute, to hold the lower half tight to the bow and even.
First, what I am talking about:
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I put wax paper inside the length of the index lip,taped inside and out, so that the resin I was about to pour, would fill the gap to the upper half,leaving the thickness of the wax paper, for a tight fit. This idea eventaully worked out nicely. I taped the lower hull with more wax paper, rotate the hull so that the resin would fill the gaps, and filled. I had the popsicle stick hold the hull halves tight for alingment like shown before, until a significant portion of the index gaps had dried overnight, then removed the sticks. The hull stayed in place, and I finished filling where the sticks were.
I had also used my spare akula hull the make a full, contoured index lip in the stern upper. Since the cuts are in different locations on my two projects, I will do the same later on the X tail.

Note: You can see the index lips through the translucent hull, cool huh?
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Wax paper on upper half
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Filling gap in lower z cut with resin:
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After filling in the index with resin, I left the halves together, tore off the wax paper, and sanded down to the halves :
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Stern and bow fit. I had to "burn through" the gel coat in places to get them to match up. They are close, conture wise, but a little more is needed.
However, the gaps are gone. In some places it used to be nearly 1/4 inch!! It now sildes together like a bought kit too.
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Now, we get to where I have the right idea, but wrong material.
I liked the outcome of the wax paper seam results. I noticed that the tube had "pulled in" slightly where I had cut it. You can feel it with your finger, but can see it if you squint and look down the lenght of the hull.
So, I put a yard stick in the mix. I repeated the wax paper on the hull lenght thing, except put the yard stick on one side of the seperation line. I then put evercoat the length of the hull, on just one side of the seam. Once dry, I removed the stick, flipped the wax paper over the evercoat,pulled it tight and taped it down, and used it a a dam and built up the opposite side. I intended to conture sand all this, figuring I would be cool since I had a glass-to-glass fit anyway. Right?
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I also began taking away the trace for the sonar dome outline, and filled in a few deliniated flood holes not in place on the Borei. The sonar dome is not much more than a slight coloration difference in real life, so at 1/96, that needed to disappear.
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Now, here is where it all was this morning:
(Oh yea, I am sitting on a same scale 1/96 Kilo too 8) )
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So, I took a piece of the G12 tube and laid it over the joint and confirmed a suspicion. The "pull in" is a little broader than thought, even though you cannot see it. I will have to take the evercoat off completely, and go back with a layer or two of fiberglass, and sand it into submission!!
So, I took it all off with a dremel and a sanding disc. You talk about a white layer of dust over the entire garage!!!
And kids, eye protection and a really good respirator is worthwhile. That dust was very fine and all over me. But my fuelly dragster respirator kept it out of my lungs.
Anyway, Here it is this evening. I sanded the G12 tube back several inches for adhesion for the glass, and evercoat removed.
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So, after watching the Grayling build, I feel like a monkey slinging poo. Using popsicle sticks,toothpicks, and wax paper. No lathe. But, I am having fun. I do hear voices sometimes. "Part of the ship, part of the crew" , while working away :shock:
I will post again once I get the seams contour fixed, and hopefully, primed. I want to get on the deck!!
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Re: 1/96 Borei-Project Nemisis

Postby Pirate » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:29 pm

MISSION BRIEFING

SUBCOMATLAN

Orders: fast attack sub SSN 775, USS Texas

Sit on station northern Atlantic off coast Polyarnyy inlet - stop
Wait for "Boomer coming out of the bar," Borei class, code name Nemisis - stop
Track for 24 hours, then destroy - stop

Authentication code: SSACBNPZZC
HOLD FAST
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