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PDF.. WTF

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PDF.. WTF

Postby Rick Teskey » Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:52 pm

Just recieved my lastest report.. not pleased.
I want the post reggatta color glossy photos in a magazine format like my other 80+ issues not a trip too Kinkos or where ever.
Change of format should not have taken place untill the new year and finish out with the same hard copies I paid for.
I understand cost cutting etc. but I never voted too change the format.
A nice magazine too show people is a better draw in my mind.
Rick
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Re: PDF.. WTF

Postby tabledancer » Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:42 pm

I`m with you Rick!!! :(



TD :wink:
Don`t forget,its going to be dark tonite.
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Re: PDF.. WTF

Postby JWLaRue » Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:47 pm

Rick,

I think the EC notice in the SCR laid out the issue (no pun intended) quite clearly that there wasn't the money to cover the printed September and December issues, yes? Moving to a PDF was the only real alternative.

-Jeff

p.s. and not to be too picky, but the past 80+ issues have not all had color (covers only, btw). I think I introduced the first color cover about 20 some issues ago. I would have thought that gaining a full 64 pages plus covers in full color would be a welcome thing.
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Re: PDF.. WTF

Postby wlambing » Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:27 am

Guys,

This is still wayyyyyyyyyyy better than the alternative of none at all! The money thing has been a looming problem for several years, brought about by some really, really, bad and extremely stupid decisions made in the past, by an un-named individual, who actually should be in jail by my way of thinking. (Then again, both Clinton's should be, too!) The current leadership has been trying to fix the problems, and frankly, have done a pretty good job! Yeah, it's a pain if you want to print it, or some part, but you have it, and your dues will be a butt-ton cheaper. The EC coulda pulled the plug and walked away. I'm glad they didn't!

Take care,

Bill
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Re: PDF.. WTF

Postby Tom Dougherty » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:06 pm

Would I love to have continued with the printed, glossy magazine...sure! But the reality is that the membership numbers have been slipping, and we "crossed the line" on the ability to pay for printed & mailed issues. It became unsustainable. So, electronic publication came to the rescue. I am not happy about that, but I do understand that there was little choice.

As Bill mentions above, it was due to some bad decisions, but also, I think, the general economy and the fact that what started out as a broader based submarine interest magazine (go back & look at issues 1-25 or so) has evolved more towards a largely R/C based magazine (with less emphasis on submarine history, etc., and more on the details of building an R/C submarine. Before I get a lot of rebuttal on this, please note I said less emphasis, not a total lack of...). So, you have a smaller, more focused audience, primarily those who have both the hobby cash and inclination to build and operate an R/C submarine. Also, despite the best efforts of many, there are fewer posts and fewer visits to our website. Again, not a healthy trend for an all volunteer interest club.

There are now very few SC members such as myself who are interested in submarine history & display modeling, and not that interested in R/C model operation. I am the liaison for IPMS (International Plastic Modelers Society-5000+ US members alone) , and answer submarine modeling questions. Not much interest anymore from that quarter in what we do, as we are viewed as an "All R/C Organization", which is not strictly true, of course, but not that far from the truth, either. By the way, the IPMS magazine (which features build articles, submitted photos, etc.) is a 6 times a year magazine http://www.ipmsusa.org/index.htm, and shows what can be done with a larger membership.

On the positive side, the new, much lower member dues will certainly help attract individuals, but I honestly don't know how many people out there are interested in R/C submarines yet are unaware of our existence. So the question for us all, and more specifically for the new Officers will be, "Whither the SubCommittee?". What is the best strategy to grow membership? What is the audience(s) we are trying to attract and appeal to?

Maybe submarine display model kits are a "gateway drug" for some to R/C. Maybe if the SCR has more articles on submarine history & technology (similar to "Proceedeings..."), you would generate more interest in general and again get a fraction of those individuals excited enough to build and operate an R/C submarine. Well then, we should maybe make more efforts along those lines. I don't really know if those would work and certainly don't have any quick solutions, but since we are going "all electronic" for now, we are no longer limited to a publication limit on page numbers, so there is "room for more" of everything. Folks, we are in a decline-how do we reverse it?
Tom Dougherty
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Project Azorian Book: http://www.usni.org/store/catalog-fall-2012/project-azorian
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Re: PDF.. WTF

Postby salmon » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:14 pm

Tom,

I posted before that I like the PDF format, but I can understand those that are upset too. We still have a great publication. Could it be improved? It would be short sighted for me to say no - even as a newbie.
That being said, I really think you hit the nail on the head regarding numbers being down and suggestions for improving.
I am new, so I can only give you my perspective (not saying it is right either) on this. I joined SubCommittee because of the help I have always received, but I am a member of other sites as well. I needed to (even though I see many of the same members at other sites) because each one had different information I needed. Especially as a newbie! So (only after I build my first sub to completion) I will want to help develop some newbie areas. Building models since I was young, I sometimes do things without giving much thought because I am use to building that way. When I show my son how to build, I have to explain the things that I do second nature. I see that needed here.
I do not see at the moment the difference between a display model and an R/C model (except the obvious). Both CAN be detailed out. They can be painted, weathered and use many similar techniques. Yes, we should grow those areas. This benefits everyone.
SubCommittee has some of the best people around. We have also lost some of the best around too! I hope we can recover and be the best source for anyone interested in learning more about the history, building, displaying, and running a submarine. As I have talked to members, I know there is a lot of history this group has faced the past 10 years and it is from this resource other sites have sprung up. Some of it has caused hurt feelings, split ups, and polarizing of the group. That in its self is not bad. It is what we do with it that makes or breaks a group up. Selfishly, I would like to see us all pull together, support each other, and focus on sharing knowledge to further the SubCommittee cause. so, PDF.. BFF
I am KEENLY aware of my lack of experience in R/C submarines and for speaking up, so take my opinion anyway you want.
If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.
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Re: PDF.. WTF

Postby SubICman » Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:57 pm

Tim,

It wasn't e-mailed out.......the 32-page (1/2 SCR) in b&w was mailed via the postal service. The full, 64 page, full color SCR can be downloaded from the link under the SCR forum in the members only section.....

-hope this helps,

Jeff
When surfaced, the bridge access hatch can be optionally open or shut, however, when submerged it is required to be shut. (Really a no s***t precaution from a procedure in use in the sub fleet today.)
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Re: PDF.. WTF

Postby admiralscommander » Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:33 pm

Tim,
First, go apologize to your wife for blaming her. : )
Second, go to the members only sectiion under Subcommittee Report / SCR and you will find the download page there.
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Re: PDF.. WTF

Postby Thor » Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:58 pm

I applaud the decision to take this step, as Tom so wisely pointed out above. I know that the decision was NOT an easy one, and was not taken lightly. It was this or oblivion for the SCR. It was as simple as that. The advantages of the electronic format should not be under estimated. There are many. I think that this new electronic format can be used to leverage substantial growth in the number of members in the SC and start to rebuild this ever shrinking hobby.

Whoever or whatever is ultimately responsible for what has happened here matters not, in my opinion and I want to caution all against rumors, inuendo, etc about this situation. That in itself will not end well for anyone. I think we need to move on and look forward, not backward. This was going to be the end game for the SCR regardless of what has happened financially in the recent past. The harsh reality of it all is that we were headed down this path 10 yrs ago. The issues mentioned above only hastened the event as there was no stopping it.

Matt
Last edited by Thor on Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: PDF.. WTF

Postby SubICman » Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:55 pm

Found it, Downloaded it, and apology issued, now will have till wait until Thanksgiving to findout if accepted. Currently out to sea in port for a brief stop
When surfaced, the bridge access hatch can be optionally open or shut, however, when submerged it is required to be shut. (Really a no s***t precaution from a procedure in use in the sub fleet today.)
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Re: PDF.. WTF

Postby salmon » Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:22 pm

Thor,
100% agree with you!
Peace,
Tom
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Re: PDF.. WTF

Postby Don Prince » Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:44 pm

I'm very disappointed about the move to a electronic format (PDF) SCR magazine... The high quality colorful SCR magazines have been collected in my library since I joined the Subcommittee in 2003. If asked, I would have been willing to pay more in dues for the printed edition. However, that option looks to be out of the question. This reminds me of the current NETFLIX decision and the membership consequences that followed. Good Luck!

Regards,
Don_
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Re: PDF.. WTF

Postby stevel14 » Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:26 am

I have no problems with the PDF since it will save a considerable amount of money. I do understand those who want a printed version however. As a suggestion to the editors, perhaps you should consider eliminating the background color. That will allow the Report to be printed at home, for those who want to, without using up a ink cartridge per issue. I am not suggesting eliminating the color photos, only the backgrounds, like the dark blue covers or any grey 'highlighted' areas.

Steve L
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Re: PDF.. WTF

Postby JWLaRue » Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:52 pm

There is a pretty easy way to get your PDF copies of the SCR printed and bound just like the older, printed SCRs. Check out http://www.magcloud.com.....the "perfect binding" is what you would be looking for and the cost is not too bad.

-Jeff
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Re: PDF.. WTF

Postby Don Prince » Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:57 pm

It looks like the annual cost for printing 4 issues of the SCR would be approximately $120 per year plus shipping at magcloud! I could afford the printing cost. but I don't believe I will do so. It doesn't bother me to invest in something that I perceive of value. This past year I purchased 10 extraordinary leather bound books covering German WWII medals and the cost was relatively high.

I believe the leadership team should have provided the members options with regards to the SCR. For those who want the printed SCR; an increase in membership dues, and the SCR to be mailed quarterly, or all 4 SCRs mailed annually in December. There are all different ways to resolve the issue with the SCR, you only have to think outside the box. I do understand why the international members have a problem with the higher membership dues, but I believe this should be a choice left to the individual member. In my humble opinion the quarterly SCR magazine is what makes the Subcommittee extraordinary and a level above most other web based hobby groups.

Please excuse my displeasure, but it is what it is...

Regards,
Don_
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