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Issue 85 SubCommittee Report

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Issue 85 SubCommittee Report

Postby Scott T » Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:44 pm

Issue 85 of the SCR looks good. I liked the book review on the Azorian Project very much.
Also the Guppy model building on Static on the Line peaked my interest. One more article
to read and I will be done.

Scott T
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Re: Issue 85 SubCommittee Report- followup

Postby Tom Dougherty » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:26 pm

Scott,
The SCR ends up looking good because of the efforts of many people. The Production staff under the direction of Jeff Larue, and all of the contributors listed on the Contents page all make the SCR possible. I think we (the SC membership) need to give serious consideration to Jeff's point about the feasibility of continuing the SCR in print. The shrinking member numbers make it difficult to maintain what I think is an absolutely essential part of the SC, the magazine. I also was disheartened by the drop off in activity on this site as well, although it has picked up somewhat recently. The only answer is for the membership to be more aggressive in mentioning the SubCommittee, recruiting members and holding activities. Otherwise this 20 year experiment in submarine hobby mania may end. I would hate to see that happen!

Since I was involved in both of the items you commented on, I wanted to respond. The Azorian book was itself a one year effort, coming off over a three year effort on researching & assembling the Azorian documentary film. The book and the film do not overlap significantly; they tell the story from somewhat different viewpoints. On behalf of the entire Azorian TeamI appreciate the very positive SCR review Romain Klaasen wrote. A few minor points to set the record straight on some items in the review. Specifically the questions he poses at the end of the review. The acoustic data (presented in the book) from AFTAC rules out a battery explosion as the cause of the K-129 loss. Second point, the lower gates on the moon pool were open during the entire recovery operation of lowering and raising the pipestring to which the CV was attached. Having an entire 1/3rd of your ship's structure open to the sea for days was an.....interesting experience, according to our interviewees. The two wingwalls on either side of the moon pool which connected the fore and aft structures were built to handle tremendous stresses of ship movement (with no traditional keel) during the operation. Finally the loss of most of the K-129 was due to several factors-the use of maraging steel (which is atrong but brittle at low temperatures) and on site decisions to offload additional weight on the CV to sink the CV arms and davits deeper into the bottom on either side of the K-129. This caused stress cracks in the arms, and later failure and loss of most of the forward section of the K-129 when the arms gave way. This is also illustrated quite nicely in a CGI sequence in the film. A final point is that USS Halibut was SSN/SSGN 587, not 586 (which was Triton), as in the review. It is listed as 587 in the book multiple times.

A separate point was your comment on the Guppy submarines. I have been playing with writing an extended article of the Guppy program and its role in the post WWII early Cold War. If there is additional interest, I would be happy to write a technical/historical article as I have done in the (not too distant) past on a number of submarine history topics. Maybe I better write it soon, as Jeff Larue's warning about the future of the SCR seemed somewhat ominous!
Tom Dougherty
Researcher for Project Azorian
Project Azorian Documentary: http://www.projectjennifer.at/
Project Azorian Book: http://www.usni.org/store/catalog-fall-2012/project-azorian
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Re: Issue 85 SubCommittee Report

Postby Scott T » Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:33 pm

I was hoping these post about the SCR would get some conversation going about the latest issue.

Did I understand right that the conning tower compartments were made larger in some of the guppy boats?
If so; how much longer? And to make room for what?

Thanks for your contribution to the magazine!

Scott T
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Re: Issue 85 SubCommittee Report

Postby Tom Dougherty » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:29 pm

Hi Scott,
The final conversion, performed in the 1960's, was the Guppy III configuration. The conning tower (which is the smaller pressure cylinder that sits within the streamlined fairwater structure- see drawing) was lengthened by almost 6 feet. The reason was to accomodate the installation of the Mk 66 analog fire control system in the equipment crowded conning tower. This control system system permitted the Guppy III to shoot the Mk 45 nuclear tipped torpedo. The step conning tower fairwater of the Guppy II outfitting was also replaced in the Guppy III with a tall, single level fiberglass "Atlantic High Sail", which moved the bridge watch up and away from the rough weather. The submarine pressure hull was also lengthened by about 15 feet, by installing a hull "plug" just forward of the control room and aft of the forward battery. Also prominent were the three BQG-4 PUFFS (passive sonar) fins on the upper hull.

Guppy II Portsmouth step sail conversion (upper) and Guppy III (lower) conversion
from: "US Submarines Since 1945" N. Friedman and J. Christley (illustrations)
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Click to enlarge

Only a handful (nine) of Guppy IIIs were created, although some Guppy IIs were also retrofitted with the high Atlantic sail. With the slowdown in SSN deliveries after Thresher's loss, the Guppys soldiered on into the 1970s, well past their scheduled retirement dates. The US Navy of the 1950-60 period was a mix of nuclear and these modernized diesel boats.
Tom Dougherty
Researcher for Project Azorian
Project Azorian Documentary: http://www.projectjennifer.at/
Project Azorian Book: http://www.usni.org/store/catalog-fall-2012/project-azorian
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Re: Issue 85 SubCommittee Report

Postby Scott T » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:44 pm

Thanks for the information. I have been in the SS 310 Batfish conning tower which is quite small (not a guppy). That is why I was curious how much bigger the chamber was.

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Re: Issue 85 SubCommittee Report

Postby salmon » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:40 am

Hello,
I am new to this forum and wanting to build my first sub. I mention this because it would be (from a selfish point of view) a great loss if this site did not continue to exist. What can I do to help support? Can I purchase Issue 85?
If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.
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Re: Issue 85 SubCommittee Report

Postby JWLaRue » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:17 am

Hello salmon,

You have come to the right place for great information anf help on building model submarines.....both static and r/c.

Basck issues of the SCR can be obtained from Don Osler (pm name = donO). ...and of course, we'd encourage you to join the SC to get all 4 issues as well as access to teh members-only forums here on this site.

-welcome!

Jeff
Rohr 1.....Los!
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Re: Issue 85 SubCommittee Report

Postby salmon » Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:21 am

Thank you for the welcome. I will sign up and become a member.
If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.
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