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USS Holland 1902 version

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Re: USS Holland 1902 version

Postby TMSmalley » Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:07 pm

Here are a couple of photos of the prop that was supplied with the RMS (Rocky Mountain Shipyard) Holland kit back in the day.

You could make one from a couple of stacked wheel collars and some silver soldered blades. Once it's painted and weathered - you're gold!

Tim

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Re: USS Holland 1902 version

Postby Sub culture » Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:17 pm

You make one. Turn a brass hub, cut out some blades from brass sheet, solder them into slots cut into the hub, preferably on a jig to ensure good alignment. Or you could bolt them in, like the original.
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Re: USS Holland 1902 version

Postby Trackpins » Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:24 am

Hi all,

My first post and glad to be here.

Latched on to this post being 'Holland associated' rather than a new post and although I'm building the original 1898 version it's relevant.

Me?

I've been making model submarines for 30 odd years on and off and now retired I can concentrate on my hobby. I've had a 32nd Parallel 1:12 USS Holland (SS1) for over 9 years now and 'done' the odd bit here and there but now getting into the final build and finish.

(I also have an OTW Naken in various stages of building that's close to finishing and a 1:32 Nautilus that's up in my loft that I intend to get into the water this year also.)

I have all the photos I can get and stuck in one area and hoping that someone out there has the original 32nd Parallel construction drawing. I can't get the shape of the 'cut outs' in the rear access panels on the side of the casing, I know they were well drawn on the original drawing and that disappeared into the 'ether' about 8 years ago!

Grateful for any help on this.

I've been inside the British Holland and totally different externally so sorry John I can't offer any help on that. The prop is again nothing like the original USS Holland prop.

Jim Butt from PA very, very kindly sent me a set of plans for the Holland a couple of years ago that he asked me to pass them on when I've finished them so 'up for grabs' if anyone needs them for the USS Holland.

Many thanks for any help.

Peter
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Kent
UK
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Re: USS Holland 1902 version

Postby Trackpins » Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:04 am

Hi John,

It's been difficult as you personally will appreciate getting drawings and details together.

I envy you your visit to 32nd Parallel, they 'shut shop' very quickly as I remember. I don't know how many 'Holland's' they produced but not that many. I bought the 'alll brass' tail and I don't think many of those sold either!

The 'problem' on the rear access hatches is the only area I have of no real knowledge.

If you want Jim's drawings just let me know where to send them. I'll check my e-mail is entered into the personal details section.

Jim sent them to me for free so the least I can do is 'send them back home' for the same.

I think once we are in direct communication (e-mail's) it will be easier to 'talk.'

Wait to hear from you.

Best wishes.

Peter.
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Re: USS Holland 1902 version

Postby Trackpins » Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:00 am

Sounds good to me John.

Anyway you think that I can help please just ask, my pleasure.

You can get the correct US flag (number of stars and size wise) from here in the UK if you want. Surprised how big that flag was!

If you need the link please let me know.

Peter.
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Re: USS Holland 1902 version

Postby raalst » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:23 pm

as you guys are all into the Hollands,
how about a short explanation of the different types ?
There seems to be an awful lof of different ones.

Just curious..

Regards,
Ronald
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Re: USS Holland 1902 version

Postby Trackpins » Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:50 pm

Hi Ronald,

Help as best I can.

John Holland actually founded the Electric Boat Co.

He was Irish and originally designed submarines that could sink major British warships. All a bit political, Irish freedom fighters sponsored him initially. That sort of thing best left where it is, in the past!

His Holland was the first 'conventional' submarine with propulsion under water by an electric motor and batteries and a petrol engine when surfaced and the normal methods (pre-nuclear) of controlling the boat. The overall shape was quite amazing, very similar in style to the first US Navy nuclear submarines.

The Holland was in trials with other craft required by the US Navy. The Holland won 'hands down' and was taken into US service being SS1. As well as the 18" Whitehead torpedo (with a reload) it also mounted a 'dynamite gun' in the bow designed to be fired when the boat was surfaced. Not very accurate but again a novel feature.

Various mainly external changes were made by the US Navy including a wooden deck and much simplified masts to the original types. Some changes to the steering but nothing totally design changing. It remained in US Navy service until around 1920 I think when scrapped!

We 'clever or not so clever British' as in this case regarded submarines at that time as being 'pirate vessels' and not the sort that 'Gentlemen' would use!

Thankfully we 'grew up' sooner than later and built 6 Holland type submarines under licence here in the UK. They were considerably different again externally (an example being the USS Holland had mainly flush rivets, ours the normal 'domed' rivets. Was John Holland even then thinking of reducing drag? I would like to think so.

We did make one massive improvement though, we added a periscope that made underwater navigation easier.

No Holland fired a shot in anger although the British Holland's were ready to leave port and engage the Russian Baltic fleet making its way to the Far East, (the Russo-Japanese War of 1904) after the Russians had sunk English fishing boats at sea mistaking them for Japanese torpedo boats! (The Japanese sank most of them anyway a few months later so honour satisfied and the Russians paid the British reparations.)

A potted history and I hope of use.

Peter.
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Re: USS Holland 1902 version

Postby Trackpins » Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:49 am

Hi John,

Some interesting photos there, thanks.

I think what I have realised is that the changes made by the US Navy from the 'as delivered' were progressive, 'a learning curve' being the first so to speak.

The original masts were complicated, I know I have just finished making mine to scale and about 36 pieces including scale steel bolts. One photo shows the simpler masts but no wooden deck hence the above opinion. As I think I have previously said I have been in the Royal Navy Holland at the Royal Navy Submarine Museum in Hampshire here in the UK. Cramped but restored so an interesting experience.

And in case any one thinks that we here had the presence of mind to save this one for the future wrong!

It sank on tow to the breakers yard and was discovered on the sea bed I guess 20 years ago and recovered and restored. It spent a couple of years in a water tank with Bicarbonate of Soda and added until a PF of 6 was achieved to leach out the salt otherwise it would now be just a pile of rust. Did the trick it seems.

I am a mind of useless information now it seems!

Peter.
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Re: USS Holland 1902 version

Postby raalst » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:31 am

Thanks, peter.

reason I asked is that the dutch licence-built sub (P7 type ?)
has a different tower.
some data and pictures on the Dutch boat here :
http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/boats/boat_o1.htm
Regards,

Ronald van Aalst

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Re: USS Holland 1902 version

Postby subdude » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:44 pm

Hi Peter!

Glad to see that you have surfaced here (so to speak).

Lots of great Holland info going on here, and I'm looking forward to seeing your boat!

Kind Regards,

Jim Butt
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Re: USS Holland 1902 version

Postby Sub culture » Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:24 am

So when are you coming to one of the Dive-in's, Peter?

You're almost round the corner from Brockwell Lido, living in Bromley.

Also don't forget the Summer Dive-in at St Albans, a bit further to travel, but only half hour round the M25.
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Re: USS Holland 1902 version

Postby Trackpins » Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:47 am

Hi Jim,

Long time no speak. Hope all is well with you.

The plans you kindly sent me are 'winging' their was back to the USA as I write for another modeller to make use of. Always appreciate your kindness, typical American style.

A few more weeks yet and I mean weeks to finish the USS Holland. At the end almost and the painting and finishing will make it.

I'll post some photos when it's finished and also send them directly to you.

I'm beginning to wonder just how many of these 32nd Parallel 1:12 US Holland's still exist? I have tried for about 5 years to contact any other owner on all of the sites I can and nothing.

Probably quite unique now with the 'all brass' tail section and I know they made very few of those.

About it Jim, and again many thanks for you past kindness.

Best wishes, stay safe.

Peter
Last edited by Trackpins on Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: USS Holland 1902 version

Postby Trackpins » Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:57 am

So when are you coming to one of the Dive-in's, Peter? You're almost round the corner from Brockwell Lido, living in Bromley. Also don't forget the Summer Dive-in at St Albans, a bit further to travel, but only half hour round the M25.

All true and a fair comment but the main object is to have a working boat/s to 'play with.' I've been a little too diverted with one thing and another but this year should see me at a 'Dive In.' The M25! A nightmare but not far as you say and I don't have to pay 'the blonde haired buffoon' any congestion charge. Not my favourite person as you will gather!

The USS Holland is progressing well and my OTW Naken is a few weeks off being completed. I also have a brand new 1:32 Nautilus in the loft with it's RC and what a kit that is. Superb detail but designed for static display so have to get the 'Grey matter' moving on that to make decisions how to make it fully RC.

A damn good site this, never found such helpful and informed people.

About it, be in touch.

Best wishes.

Peter.
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Re: USS Holland 1902 version

Postby Sub culture » Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:43 am

Just addressing a couple of points. You'll find the Dive-ins entertaining with or without a boat- the mood is always lighthearted and laid back, and the facilities are excellent. Plus someone will let you have a play. I haven't confirmed a date for the next Brockwell event yet, as it hinges on when the pool will be refilled after refurbishment. Hopefully it should be in March or April. The Summer Dive-in is pencilled in for Sunday June 13th 2010, so that gives you a date to work towards.

No congestion charge through London at weekends, and the M25 tends to be clear if you set off before 10am on a Sunday.

Ramesh, who helps me with the Dive-ins, is building an extended (AIP) Naken, you can compare notes with him.

Andy
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Re: USS Holland 1902 version

Postby Trackpins » Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:00 am

Address away Andy, address away!

My USS Holland is that as received by the US Navy before any modifications were made so around 1899/1900.

Should be fine for the dates you have given.

A good friend of mine makes the OTW WTC's and he mentioned to me about the extended Naken into the Danish version. It's a big model as it is so interesting to see. I've designed a 'Stand alone' electric/electronic system to operate the tower planes automatically so if Ramesh wants to e-mail me I can pass on my ideas.

I am still (even though retired) making the odd appearance at Court and that frustrates my modelling somewhat! I think I'll quit for good soon.

Looking forward to meeting up sincerely. I know the congestion charge does not apply (yet) at the weekends but seemed too good an opportunity to miss for a 'side swipe' at 'The buffoon!'

The M 25 as I said but I'm old enough to remember the A 25 before the M 25 was built, now that was a nightmare. Following a loaded tractor towing a trailer for 10 miles on a normal 2 lane road without the opportunity to overtake was verging on suicidal thoughts!

Best wishes.

Peter.
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