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Bow and stern planes control?

R/C Submarine modelers

Postby junglelord » Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:26 pm

The Seaview bow planes and stern planes as designed by Mr Merriman, work together, in that particular model....because it is the screwball of subs. So while normally they would be opposite in most designs, the Seaview has them ganged together but working in unison.
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Postby redboat219 » Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:29 pm

Ok my proposal may be too much technical for some, here a simpler approach. Why not make the manta tips into an aerofoil shape? This way they develop lift while the sub is underway. More forward motion more lift.
"Make it simple, make it strong-and make it work!" - Mikhail Mil
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Postby SteveNeill » Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:55 pm

I never used mine on the Seaview and on some other boats I have and had no trouble without them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMIM6Ia_efs

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Postby Robert F. » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:06 pm

Gentlemen, thank you once again for all your responses and suggestions!

Redboat219, it took me some time to read (and try and understand) the links you provided. I'm afraid, however, that there is not enough space within the model for such systems.
Shaping the manta tips is something Mr. Merriman has indeed been doing (to some extent) on the underside of the bow plane parts he sells. I'm curious to see if it helps.

For the moment, I'll concentrate on building the beast with all options prepared, then in due time I will try each and every possible combination. That will be a lot of fun in itself!

Of course, this will take some time. But I will get back on this and let you all know how I have done.

Thanks again for all your help!


Robert
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Postby SteveNeill » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:53 pm

You bet Robert. Have a great build.

Steve
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Postby Crazy Ivan » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:34 pm

Reshaping the bow would certainly be an option provided it was reshaped into the 8 window movie version. This rendition of Seaview reportedly does not have the nosedive problem. Any other messing around with the form, and it would simply no longer be the Seaview.
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Postby junglelord » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:54 pm

Thats very interesting Ivan, I did not know that. You guys are awsome.
Thanks for helping me understand the Seaview as a practical sub.
8)
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Postby redboat219 » Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:10 am

Crazy Ivan wrote:Reshaping the bow would certainly be an option provided it was reshaped into the 8 window movie version. This rendition of Seaview reportedly does not have the nosedive problem. Any other messing around with the form, and it would simply no longer be the Seaview.


The 8 window version lacks the laser bulges, could these be part of the culprit for the nose diving problem?

would be nice if we could put the 2 bows in a water tunnel and watch how the water flows and behave around them.
"Make it simple, make it strong-and make it work!" - Mikhail Mil
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Postby junglelord » Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:58 am

Robert F. wrote:As far as contacting Mr Merriman is concerned: I have ordered his instructional DVD's from Caswell's which should help considerably. Unfortunately, they are being delayed somewhat because of problems producing one of the DVD's, but I'm sure they will get here in the end.



I have two sets, One or Two DVD's will not play on either set.
It was because I publicly stated that I had trouble playing the DVD set, that I was banned from their forum.
You have been banned for the following reason:
Derogatory comments on other sites

Date the ban will be lifted: Never

:?

You know that really makes me laugh.
I guess the truth is a problem?
Maybe you will be banned too for making that statement public?
:roll:


I was watching them again and trying to get a full set between the two.
I think the Bow Planes are really a extended effort of time. They are however ganged to work in concert. That is why this model is different.

I got one Sub Driver build already made with the bow planes, from another member, but the other two that I am making will not have bow planes. I have 2 Sub Drivers, and need One Big Dave unit.

I will test them and see just how effective those bow planes are compared to builds without them....I may eat my words, but Steve Neills build makes me think that they are not mandatory. As far as cutting the super structure, again, the approach by Steve with Big Daves unit, is superior to the Merriman approach. By superior, I mean easier for a novice. It is far more germain to the kit itself. For a beginner like myself, these things matter. The indimidation level is far lower and that is a big thing for us newbies.

I will hopefully mature as a model builder, day by day and one day make a fully functional 80 inch Debor. I hope to make it like a large version of the Big Dave drive or entirely wet like the bilgepump Nautilus. Good times ahead.
Cheers
Dean
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Postby junglelord » Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:51 pm

I am curious as to how much difference external dive planes on the rear nicelles might make on pitch control?
Image

I am also curious as to how a piston system might stabilize the nose dive of this model?
http://cgi.ebay.com/1-72-Kilo-SSK-super ... 286.c0.m14

from this company
www.rpmtech1.com
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Postby Robert F. » Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:45 pm

Hi Dean,

well, I have been informed that the DVD's are on their way to me. I can"t wait!

Big Dave has finished my cilinder, so that will be in my greedy hands before too long, too! I got his instruction CD in advance some time ago so that I could start with some preliminary work.

Up to this moment, I have prepared installation of Merriman's bow planes and rudders and made all necessary cuts in the hull to accept the pump. The sail is almost ready, again with Merriman's resin sail plane parts.

I have used Big Dave's method of connecting front and rear parts of the hull with brass tubing and rods. I agree with you that that method seems to be more forgiving to a novice in this hobby. Probably a matter of taste, too.

I'm also using Steve's method of magnets, to hold the sail in its place.

I suppose you could say my Seaview will be a rather hybrid model. It will be such fun to try and find the best option. And even if the working bow planes don't really make much difference, I think they will look great. Ah well, probably another matter of taste.

And dive planes on the nacelles? With all the alternatives and hulls available, a guy could spend his life just building Seaview models!


Regards,

Robert
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Postby SteveNeill » Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:16 pm

Robert. Post a build and pictures. I always love to see others build this boat. It is one of my smoothest running boats.

The deal I've found with the bow dropping is just to ease the throttle on and build speed like a real boat. Then she doesn't drop as demonstrated by yet another video of my Seaview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT6j0qDV6LE About half way into the video.

Have fun!

Steve
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Postby junglelord » Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:30 pm

Yes Robert that would be cool. Steve's build
http://s181686668.onlinehome.us/phpBB2/ ... 73&start=0
and Daves build of their respective Seaview threads helped me A LOT! Also the thread by the gentleman that built my first Seaview model is excellent.
http://s181686668.onlinehome.us/phpBB2/ ... 47&start=0
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Postby junglelord » Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:51 pm

Robert F. wrote:Hi Dean,

With all the alternatives and hulls available, a guy could spend his life just building Seaview models!
Regards,

Robert


I'm working on it....four large ones and two small ones, and counting.
One small one sits on top of a Walley World sub and is perfect in the water. My first attempt at a RC Seaview. The poor mans Seaview.

I got two Sub Driver units, the two in the middle.

Image

The painted one is complete with all the fixings and built mainly by Stringfly. I still need the electronic switch for the Snort Pump and the ADF for this unit. I have a SL - 8 rx and a Futuba PCM 1024 FP-T7UHP Super Helicopter Radio tx for this one with a 75 MHz Spectra Moduel refit for subs.

The second one is 95% done and will fit together via the center hull seam, vs the super structure concept of the painted unit. It will not have functional bow planes, but I think I will put external dive planes on the nicelles on that one. I saw it here on this build, and consider it a good idea.
Image
I have a SL-8 rx and the WFly six channel tx for my second Sub Driver unit.

The one on the outer left is destined for a Big Dave unit, and I think will be a copy of Steve's Neill's except I think I may include sail planes. Also, based on testing of my second Sub Driver unit with external dive planes on the nicelles, if sucessful as useful control surfaces for pitch stabilization, will also go on this unit. I have the WFly rx for this unit with the WFly tx.

Image

The one on the outer right, I am not sure yet what I will do with it....but I am tossing around the idea of making a cutaway static version...thats why I have the rear hull off.
Image
Last edited by junglelord on Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby junglelord » Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:24 pm

redboat219 wrote:
Crazy Ivan wrote:Reshaping the bow would certainly be an option provided it was reshaped into the 8 window movie version. This rendition of Seaview reportedly does not have the nosedive problem. Any other messing around with the form, and it would simply no longer be the Seaview.


The 8 window version lacks the laser bulges, could these be part of the culprit for the nose diving problem?

would be nice if we could put the 2 bows in a water tunnel and watch how the water flows and behave around them.


Rick Teskey would be the best man for the job to do a water tunnel test on the two different hull designs.
Crazy Ivan wrote:It's almost ready! Here are pixs of Rick's actual plug, shown next to my in-progress Seaview at the 2009 SubRegatta for comparison. The Manta fins have been thinned and reshaped, the sonar blisters removed, and the turtledeck moved forward. Looks like he just needs to cut in the windows where he penciled them in, and it should be ready to mold.

Image
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If there are any Hobby Talk members here, feel free to re-post this on the Moebius forum.


Here are a few blueprints I found on a static model forum

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Image

Image
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