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How to R/C the Trumpter Kilo for Dummies

This is the place to post your submarine build- ups.

Postby redboat219 » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:01 am

Nuke,
You got a PM :D
"Make it simple, make it strong-and make it work!" - Mikhail Mil
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Postby Rogue Sub » Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:17 pm

Oh man! I haven't posted on this in awhile! That doesn't mean I haven't done any work though. It just means I have been so busy that I haven't been able to catch up on the build thread. Trust me I am swamped right now. This may sound like complaining, like some have pointed out, it is not. In fact I would consider it seventh heaven. My philosophy is the more subs the merrier. SO, with that I continue.

OK, last we left off I had just put the basic hull parts together. This would include the two lower halves and the sail pieces. They were also filled in sanded and primed.

Now it is time to put the ballast tank vents in. Now I have some pretty good source for information, on being Wayne Frey, and it is still difficult to obtain info on what they look like and where they are. This is really the only thing I was able to obtain showing the vents and it only shows basic position.

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See what I mean? Not much but it is enough. So, I took this picture and took it to my photo shop and blew it up to length. This way I could set my hull next to the now scale size drawing and mark where each of my vents would go.

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After making a mark where each set of vents were to go I drew guide lines down both sides using my machinist scale and the built in center line as a guide. I then determined to the best of my ability how many vents were in each group. I also had to determine how big to make my holes. For this part I really just chose a size that I thought would look good. I went with 7/64". The only concern I have is that it may not let water to free flood in the hull fast enough. This would be important if you want to be able to surface or dive in a hurry. I am not to worried about it though because I can always come back and drill it bigger later.

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Here you can see my finished product. I did all of this using a very nice and inaccurate hand drill. That should explain the white filer putty you see covering the body. If this were a perfect world I would have an x & y table for my drill press and I could get this done very precisely. I just found one in harbor freight for $99.00, it is now on my X-mas list.

Next I took some time to enhance the engraved details on the boat. This can be a good idea sometimes when you get a model that has very shallow scribe lines. After a few layers of primer, color and clear coat you may just loose some of your details. Actually the first time I made this model I loose some of my details. That's why this time I decided to deepen the lines a bit. To do this all you need is a sharp object and if you are me some filler putty ( I now call this stuff my magic eraser). Personally I use a dental scribe that you can get at your local hobby store and a metal rod sharpened to a very fine point.

The trick to this hole process is slow and steady. You can always tell when your going to fast when your doing this because your scribe will have just left the groove and made a whole new line in the wrong spot. This is where that magic eraser comes in! SO, start slow! Make the first pass very lightly and then go over it again a little harder. Do this a few times till you get it deep enough. So, what is deep enough you ask? If the scribe goes through the other side you've just gone to far and its time to get the magic eraser out.

Now since you have just removed material and essentially pushed the plastic aside you will have plastic left in the scribe groove and you will have a raised lip. Simply use a little wet sand to get rid of the lip and some steel wool to get the access material out of the groove. I also found that running the scribe through the lines again without pressure with running water works decent.

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Here is a look at mine with a shot of white primer. It really makes the lines stick out good.

Well that's it for tonight. I have more to write but, its already late. More to follow later.
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Postby Rogue Sub » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:35 pm

Well time to update the progress on the Kilo so far. I'm nearly ready to get this boat in the water and go have some fun. The only thing that is holding me back right now is the nice big gaps between the two hull halves. Ive been experimenting with a few techniques but, I haven't found my nitch for this one. My biggest problem is a nice size gap in the nose of the boat... yuck. With that said lets get down to the building.

I received some more photos showing the sail of this boat up a little closer. After a little comparison with the sail of my trumpter boat I noted a few things missing that I wanted to add to my model. For one the notch that the whip antenna folds down into was not on the sail. I also noted that there was a door/hatch on the aft end of the sail. There were also a few misc holes all over the boat that were not on my boat.

Here is a shot of my best reference for the top of the sail.

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The first thing I set out to do was to add all of the misc holes that were all over the top of this boat. To do this I took out my 1/32" drill bit from my dremel drill set and chucked it up in my drill. I then took a pencil and mapped out all the holes I wanted to add while referencing it against a large print out of the photo shown above. After I was happy with where the holes laid out I drilled all the holes out. An easy task so far.
My next order of business was to create the missing hatch on the aft end of the sail. Now I have no idea how big it really is and a guess I could get all scientific and do a ratio by measuring the sail and so on but, I'm not that guy. I just eyeballed it. Using a ruler and pencil a made a few lay outs comparing to the photo and making corrections. When I was happy with my box, I used the same ruler as a guide and scribed the box in using my very sharp metallic point.
Finally I wanted to add the groove for the whip antenna. This was again a very simple task. Using my calibrated eyes I expertly laid a line in pencil where I wanted the groove to be. The I took out my dental scribe to make the groove with my ruler as a guide. I used the dental scribe for this one because it would remove more material then my regular scribe would. I needed this grove to be deep so that it would resemble the real thing.
After all this was done I shot the sail with a quick coat of flat black to give me an idea of how it would look.

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Not bad I would say and I think the 20 or less minutes it took to add these small details was worth it. The add something to the bland top of this sail.

OK now back to the top of this boat. It is time to attack the safety rails, bollard holes, and hatches.

To bollard or not to bollard? For me there was no question.... they had to go. I like my boats to resemble a boat that is ready to dive and having bollards stick up while diving would more than likely never happen. So, why wont I say that it will never happen? Well, it may be personal bias but Russian equipment made very poorly. I'm sure at one time or another the mechanism to lower these bollards at one point or another failed in its duties and was forced to remain out after diving. I can't prove it but, you all know its likely. OK, way of course now ehh. Anyway I simply made a small batch of Evercoat and filled all the stupid holes in that the kit provided for their bollards. I then took the bollards and sharply stuck them in the trash.
While the Evercoat was setting up I moved on to the hatches. I have lots of pictures of these bad boy and all of the ones I see show the kit to be incorrect in its representation.
Here have a look for yourself.

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Notice that the deck does not have a recess around the hatch like the kit indicates. I am very curious what they were looking at when they made this model. I mean it is a Chinese model. the Chinese have Kilos of their own that they have purchased from Russia.
Look for yourself!

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Nice huh? Well, I guess we will just have to fix what they didn't.
This is a fairly simple fix but, its can be a pain in the arse ! Phase one start by gluing the provided hatch into place. Phase two mix Evercoat. Phase three apply Evercoat to the gap. Phase four watch Evercoat dry. Of course it only takes about 5 minutes for the stuff to dry but why sit around when there is work to be done. Lets move on to the hand rails.

The hand rails are a bit over sized on the boat and not mention incorrect again. The safety rails on this boat do not extend all the way down to the end of the deck. Have a look.

Image

You have to be paying attention but you can see it in the top corner. In fact there is a good amount of nice detail in this photo that one could add to the boat. Leave it to personal preference ehh.

As for right now we are only concerned with the safety rail. First thing to do was to just remove the old hand rail. I is not only to long but, it is also to big. To get rid of it I took out my exacto chisel and shaved it off.

Next it was time to ensure the old rail was all gone by sanding it down. I is also a good time to sand everything down and make the corrections smooth. After a little wet sanding I let the top dry and shot it with some primer to look for holes in the filling. I then applied squadron putty to fill the dimples and holes. I also inspected for left over railing and removed that as well. After the putty dried I wet sanded again and this was what I ended up with.

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The next thing I wanted to do was replace the railing with an new better one. There are two ways you can do this that I can think of. There is the cost effective way and there is the lazy way. I wonder which one I chose. Yeah the lazy way. I took myself to the local hobby store and bought the smallest rod styrene they had and brought it home to use as my rail. The other way is to take the plastic struts from the kit and using a flame pull them into thin strips. I suck at it. Good luck to you.

Now to attach the the rails I first held down the end of the rail on the forward end of the boat where I wanted it. The using a small brush with some plastiweld I adhered about a 1 inch section to the boat.

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This helped me to hold the rail in place while I used tape to place the rest of the rail where it needed to be . I also ensured that the safety rail ended right before the aft hatch. After that I applied plastiweld to the rest of the railing and let it dry. Remember that only a little bit of plastiweld is needed. Using to much will melt the plastic and make wrinkles. It is a real pain to fix. I hate doing it. So should you.

Here is a look at the after effect. Sorry the photo is a little fuzzy but, It is to late for me to take another as I was on a roll at the time.

Image
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Postby Rogue Sub » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:53 pm

Now to fix the top half of the bow. More specifically the sonar window that the Russians love to put on their boats.

If you scroll up and have a look at the schematic for this boat you will notice that the window does not go down to the water line. It actually stops right above it. On the model it extends all the way to the seam where the top and bottom connect and ends? Just weird because it doesn't even complete the window. I think I will fix it.

The first thing to do was to figure out where the window needed to end. Judging from the schematic the window ends just below the forward most ballast vent. Now all I did was place the top on a flat surface and make shims to get a pencil to the desired height. I then made a pencil line around the bow where I wanted the new scribe line to be.

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Now that I knew where the line needed to be I took some putty and filled the line up to where it needed to be . Next I got my scribe out and shimmed it to the desired height. I also taped it to the shims to ensure it would not move and made my new line. After a few passes the sonar window was fixed.

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After I was done with the bow I went back to the top of the hull so I could re scribe the Circles for the forward and aft hatches. For this I just used a template, found the appropriate size circles and made my scribes.

Image
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Postby Rogue Sub » Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:26 pm

For the next part of my Kilo adventure I wanted to add another bit of detail to the hull itself.

I noticed in a few photos I have that there is a creeper motor exhaust port and intake on both sides of the boat. They are difficult to get pictures of with much detail so I embellished a bit.

Heres a look at the best photo I had to work with.

Image

You can just see a square door forward of the planes for the intake and then the teardrop shape of the thruster exhausts. You can also see that the exhaust is slotted.

Now if you inspect the model underneath the dive planes you will notice that it already has the exhaust shape scribed in for you. I feel that these are a little big but not being able to reall disprove their size, I stuck with the provided shape.

I simply drilled a hole and filled these out to my desired shape. Now these new hole don't look that great in the side of the boat mainly do to their size. It just looks odd to have a hole that big in the side of the boat. To make things look a little better I went to Wal-mart and got some screen door material. I you do this make sure to get the plastic stuff of corse duh. I then cut two small pieces of this material and put it over the holes with the horizontal lines of the material aligned properly. I then used Ca to make them permanent. It may not be perfectly accurate but it made it look much better. After all that was done I used one of my templates and found a square approx. the size that I wanted and scribed my two creeper inlet doors.

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A quick shot of primer to check my work and I am pretty happy with it.

The other thing I wanted to add while I was at it is a door on the forward end of the boat. I have no idea what it does but its there so I am going to put it in.

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You can just see the door in this picture. It is a nice oval shape at approximately the centerline forward of the boat. To make this I went through my templates and found a nice oval and scraped it into the hull on both sides. Now you may not have a template to do this one but, you could get a brass tube and smash it in a vice till you get the shape you wanted.


Image
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Postby Rogue Sub » Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:32 pm

Now that most of the exterior detail is complete it is time to install the fitting kit made by D&E.

The fittings kit includes every thing that you will need to turn this sub into a working model. You have to fabricate absolutely nothing. The kit includes dog bone connectors, shaft bearing, drive shaft support brace, drive shaft, both 6 and 7 blade propellers, 3 control yokes, bow planes, dive planes, improved rudder, rudder support bracket, 2" Sub Driver cradles, two upper hull alignment braces and a block to attach the two hull halves (you will see later). Whew! Hope I didn't leave anything out.

I started off by installing the bow planes because it is a fairly quick process. To start with I drilled the holes for the bow plane support rods. This is a simple enough task to do because all that is required is to enlarge the existing holes the model has for mounting the provided over sized planes.
Next I test fit the bow planes onto the provided brass rod. Did I say brass rod? I ment to say square brass. Thats right square. One of the coolest things about this kit is that all the rods are square brass. This allows you to just slip the control surfaces on the brass and not worry about them slipping around the rod. This means a set screw is also not necessarily, an important thing when the control surfaces are as small and as thin ass these are. Now then as I was saying the first thing I did was slide the bow planes on to the square brass. You will find that they wont just slid on because there is a little resin inside blocking the way. I just used the rod and repeatedly rammed it into the hole to clear it out and get the plane on. Be careful not to destroy your bow plane while doing this. After you get a satisfactory fit you just put it all on the boat. The bow planes are held on by friction or CA if you worry a lot.

Image

Stern Planes Tomorrow
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Postby Rogue Sub » Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:57 pm

OK now for the dive planes as promised.

As is you can't just glue the planes on and call it a day. This is because the shaft the planes are mounted on goes through the in a spot where there is plastic. To open the existing slots up I used my flat file and slowly got them where I needed them. After that was done I did a quick dry fit up to make sure the planes and everything lined up. It should be a pretty good fit but you may need to file the planes to get them to match up perfect. Now to glue them in I used some of my thick CA. I like the thick CA because it stays right where you put it and when you glue the two parts together the thick CA will fill the cracks for you right away saving you some putty time later.
So this is a simple enough process slide the square brass through the hull and then onto the two dive planes. Put a little thick CA onto one of the planes and put it onto the boat. Then do the other one when the Ca has dried. The Square brass should have ensured the planes stayed aligned.


Image

Image

Tomorrow the rudder!
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Postby Rogue Sub » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:32 pm

To install the new improved rudder that the D&E kit comes with you will have to do a few modifications to the existing part of the fixed rudder.

The new rudder I not only more accurate looking but it is also bigger then the kit provided rudder. In order to get the new rudder to fit in I had to get my flat file out and remove a good portion of the top part of the fixed rudder. While I was doing mine I took it very slow checking my progress often with the rudder. Although I always say don't worry you can always fix it, that doesn't mean I also like to waste my time trying to build something back up because I was to darn impatient the first time. When it is done the rudder should be a a clean fit. You don't want any friction in here or it will bite you later when your rudder doesn't swing smoothly.

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Here is a shot showing where I needed to file. Sometimes pictures are just better then words.

After I had the rudder so it was a good clean fit I installed the upper rudder bracket. This piece is a glove fit in the boat and just slips right into the aft end of the boat. A little Ca and it isn't going anywhere. This part is very important for the strength of the rudder and without it the rudder will just wobble around in the back.

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Here is a shot of the piece installed. You can see the hole in the top where the rudder rod will go.

Now I went to put the rudder assembly together. My first idea was to stick the rudder in its slot and try to insert the Square brass through the top. Well that was a quick en devour because the angle makes it impossible to get the rod in through the top. So, the only other way to go is through the bottom. To do this I had to drill a hole in the bottom of the rudder support. This Is a very scary part of the rudder for me because the piece of plastic that exists there is very thin and you have to take it slow. I started off with a 1/32" drill bit and slowly got bigger till i could get the rod through the hole. After that was done the rudder went right together and I slid on one of the super miniature bell cranks provided by the kit.

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This pictures shows the whole thing thrown together.

Next I wanted to install the rudder support bearing piece. In order to do this I first had to assemble the propeller. I decided to go with the 6 bladed propeller provided by the D&E kit. I did this because it is the right propeller for the boat modeled by Trumpter. The 7 blade prop would require some major deck modification to be accurate and I didn't want to waste my time. I also took into account how rough I am on my toys and the 6 blade prop looks much more stout.
Each propeller comes in two piece, a propeller and a vortex attenuator. To assemble the two pieces I first glued the attenuator to the provided 1/16" Stainless Steal drive shaft. I the places a bead of CA around the bottom of the attenuator and slid the Propeller down the shaft and glued it to the attenuator and shaft. Next I cleaned up the flashing and excessive CA with my riffling files.
Now you could just slide the prop and drive shaft into the back of the boat but that wont look very good. Thats because the radius of the prop is a little bigger then the tapper of the aft end of the boat to fix this I had to use my flat file and remove material until the aft end was the same size as the rudder. The only problem with doing this is that now the hole in the back of the boat is much larger then the size of the shaft. The result being the shaft flops around in the back. No good. To fix it I put a strip of masking tape over the back hole and then filled the bottom of the boat with Ca from the top. After a shot of kicker I re drilled my shaft hole and it was now a perfect fit.

Now installing the bearing wall is a snap.

I first used CA and glued the bearing into the bearing wall. Next I slid the Prop shaft assembly though the Stern of the boat and through the bearing wall assembly. Once this was done I used the kit provided snubbing nut and pressed the bulkhead up against the inside of the boat with the 2 slots pointing upward.
It is important to not do this to tightly. Force it to tightly against the hull and it will distort the hull. Next I used some gap filling Ca and ran It down both sides of the bulkhead. The CA should start to capillary and in a few minutes the bulk head should be very strong.

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Here you can see how I held the bulkhead against the hull.

Now after I got this all together I went to try and install the dive plane control yoke and I had a realization. How the hell am I going to get a very small allen key back there when this big bulk head is in the way. Well, thank god I am not the only one the had this in mind. Originally when I looked at the bulk head I just assumed that the holes in it were to allow the free movement of water. Nope turns out they are small access holes so you can get to your yoke arms. Very cool.

Tomorrow, the hell that is making the control rods for this model.
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Postby Rogue Sub » Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:12 pm

Next I made my control rods using 1/16" rod. For my boat I arranged it so that the rudder yoke is on the port side and the dive planes yoke on the far stbd. I'm sure that you could do this reversed but honestly does it matter? Nope. Anyway, this part of the boat build is one of the larger pains in the butt. It is normally an easy straight forward process, especially considering the fact that the boat only has a lower rudder. The big pain with this part is that the area is sooooo small. If you have a set of those needle nose doctor clamps that lock they will come in handy now.
I started off with 2 long lengths of 1/16" NiCu rod that I basically use for everything. I then created a z bend in one of them. I then made a large z bend out of the whole thing. The first straight length being a bit shorter then the distance from the yoke to the bearing bulkhead. I then made the rise slightly higher the the remaining height of the bulk head. Not to high or it will just it the upper hull of the boat once it is installed.

I then installed them into their prospective yokes and this is what I got.


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looks easy right. Yeah that part was easy. Now try to move the rods. Keep in mind when your test moving them that you have to maintain a straight back and forth motion. Everything might not mesh right off the bat. Actually it took me about 5 tries (a little embarrassing). I also ended up filing down a bit on the bearing bulkhead to give the arms a little more room for sloppy movement. You may also need to shave down the top of the bulk head to make room for the upper hull. After that is done a trimmed off the excessive access rod and left a little extra for when I install the klik-ons.

Really didn't sound that bad did it? Well, maybe it isn't but, lets see you do it first!

Now I moved on to install the Sub Driver saddles and restraining hooks.

The first thing I did was turn the Sub Driver over and drill a 1/16" hole just forward of the ballast tank drain and centerline. This hole will be used to index to the fwd saddle and it will also prevent axial movement of the Sub Driver which is bad ju ju.

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Now I grabbed one of my Sub Driver saddles and drilled a 1/16" hole in the indicated position. I then CA'd a 1/16" rod into the hole and clipped it down to about the thickness of the poly carbonate tube the makes up the Sub Driver. After that was complete I also created the hooks by drilling 1/16" holes on each side of the saddles and then making hooks out of more wire. I then CA'd the hooks in. It is important to note that you may want to make sure the hooks are above the lower hull when the saddles are installed. If they aren't you will need to make a special tool just to get in there and unhook the rubber bands. I don't think my 4yr olds fingers could fit in there with the Sub Driver installed.
After that is done it is time to get the saddles installed. To install the saddles I first stuck them to my Sub Driver using 2 rubber bands.

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By doing this I can be certain that the alignment pin will be aligned when the saddle is installed. The aft saddle can be installed anywhere on the aft section of the boat. Now I put some of my thick CA on the bottoms of both saddles and stuck it into the lower hull. To ensure that I had the right clearance I installed the dog bone between the Sub driver and drive shaft. I also made sure that the Sub Driver was in the up position.

Next will be the installation of the upper ribbing and hull securing device.
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Postby petn7 » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:48 pm

What WTC is that? It doesn't look like the "stock" Kilo WTC. Is it 2 inches in diameter?
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Postby kazzer » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:08 pm

petn7

If it says 'Sub-driver' then this is a David Merriman copyright. All the other cylinders are WTCs

I guess this is a D&E Sub-driver.
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Postby Rogue Sub » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:32 pm

Yes this is the complete Kilo kit offered by Caswell. You are looking at the 2" Sub Driver made for this boat specifically.
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Postby petn7 » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:38 pm

Nuke Power wrote:Yes this is the complete Kilo kit offered by Caswell. You are looking at the 2" Sub Driver made for this boat specifically.


Thanks for the info.

I was thinking the Kilo got a different WTC. Thanks for the clarification.
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Postby Rogue Sub » Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:16 pm

Now that the lower saddles are installed it is time to install the the upper hull bracings.

These bracings are supplied for 2 reasons. The first reason is that aligning the two hull halves can be a nightmare. Using the two provided braces you can make the top half squeeze in more by placing them low in the top or you can press it deep in the top and cause the hull to get fatter in the middle. My model needed to suck in the fat a bit so I CA'd mine low in the hull.
The other purpose of the supplied upper braces is to attach the upper hull to the lower hull via the Sub Driver. That sounds a little weird and there is a reason for it. It is a little weird but, for a model of this size it works really well.
When installing the two upper braces it is important to have the Sub Driver installed in the lower hull. This is to make sure you do not install the brace where say the vent valve or fill valve are. You also want to try to install the brace with the mounting block as far forward as possible. in the opening of the sail. When I figured out where I needed mine I marked the spot with a sharpie and then took the hull top off and CA/d them in place.

Image

After the CA has dried it is time to install the mounting block to the Sub Driver. To do this I used the provided screw and attatched the mounting block to the upper hull brace. Then I did a dry fit on the boat. This was to make sure that the hull lighned up properly and to ensure I place the mounting block in a clear area. After I got everything where I wanted it I made a line with a fine point sharpie at the base of the block to ensure I got it back in the right spot.
After that I pulled the hull top of and applied CA to the bottom of the mounting block. This is the point of no return! There is no going back after this, the seal will be so tight its near permanent on the polycarbonate tube. Now put the hull top on the boat aligning the block to your line and hold it till it dries. Don't be lazy, sit there and hold it in place. I wouldn't want to screw this part up!

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A top view of the strut installed. You can also see a small magnet mounted on top. Thats a trick for later!

Another thing you might want to take the time to do right now is reinforce the the lower hull halves. This is absolutely necessary. I can quote a good friend of mine on this one "your an idiot if you don't do this!". All you need to do is take strips of styrene and CA them along the seem of the hull. In a perfect world it would run the length of the lower hull. In mine it does not. This is because I didnt do it right off the bat. Hopefully if your using this as a guide you read all the way through before starting and see this part. Here is what I had to do.

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It isn't the best in the world but anything will help this boat.

Now I think I mentioned earlier in this post that this is my second Kilo build. So, what happened to the first boat. Well, It is not a pool toy for my kid. I added a little foam to the top of the inside of the boat to make it barely buoyant and made a few drain and vent holes. Now I can position the planes and throw it in the water like a scale submarine football. It is a whole lot of fun because it screams through the water. Well, let me get to the point of this story. I hull parts of this toy boat are assemble nearly identical to the one I am currently building so it gave me an idea of how strong this hull will be on incidental impact. It did poorly. After two smacks at medium speed against the pool the hull started to split along the front. Well, that will ruin your hard work but, thats OK I figured out how to fix this!
My fix is of course over kill and will make your sub a battering ram. I stuck the lower hull on its bow and made a batch of epoxy and micro balloons. I then filled the nose. Don't add to much cause you dont need to add to much bow weight but it should be enough to make the bow nice and strong!!

Image

Here you can get an idea of how much I put in the nose. You can also see a brass plate covered in Evercoat I used to help straighten the hull.


Image

A quick sneak preview!
Kevin
A Global Force For Good

http://WWW.ROGUESUBWORKS.COM
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Postby greenman407 » Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:56 pm

What a awesome build Kevin. Your attention to detail reminds me of someone else I know.
There are OLD pilots and there are BOLD pilots but there are very few OLD BOLD pilots. MAG
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