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How to R/C the Trumpter Kilo for Dummies

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How to R/C the Trumpter Kilo for Dummies

Postby Rogue Sub » Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:05 am

Well it would seem that yesterday was a glorious day for the model submarine builder in my house. I recieved 2 seperate packages within 2 hours, both with a submarine inside (a Trumpter Kilo and Revell Type IIVc). I now have to decide what is going to be priority on the build table ( there are now enough projects in my garage to higher my own work team) and I have decided to go with.... The Trumpter Kilo with a D&E Sub Driver and fitting kit from www.Caswellplating.com.

Construction of the model's simple 3 piece hull will start later on this evening. So, if there are any of you that are not sure about building an R/C sub this small.... here is your chance to see that it is so easy a dummy could do it.
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Postby Wayne Frey » Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:39 am

Kevin,
The force is stong in this one :D
Will you be doing a buid thread? I would like to follow it.
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kilo for dummies

Postby Rick Teskey » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:53 pm

the real pointy end is the back, the round end is the front, the bumpy thingy is the sail, it goes on top.
LOL
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Postby Warpatroller » Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:19 am

I don't really consider those two models to be very "small".. The Kilo may be short but it has a FAT hull (roomy width wise, that WTC you mention for it is a 2.5" diameter), the Revell VIIs are narrower, have less room for width, but have 3+ feet in length. I'd be more curious to see how a dummy can RC that Revell VIIC, since there are NO ready to run components available to convert one as of this writing (as in RTR WTC and fittings etc, like there are for the Kilo). The Big Dave WTC kit is only an empty WTC with solid end caps, so I am not counting that (don't consider it suitable for dummies).

In my opinion, the 1/144 Revell U212 or a 1/72 XXIII, are SMALL models and I seriously doubt a dummy could build either one of them as a static diver, though I'd enjoy being proven wrong.

If your comparing the Trumpeter Kilo with the average R/C kit hulls, I suppose the Kilo could be considered small...or maybe just horizontally challenged..

Since David Merriman has done all the engineering work for you on this kit, I agree, it should be suitable for a dummy to assemble his kit...well, maybe a dummy with some kit assembly experience and some RC experience that is.
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Postby Wayne Frey » Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:28 am

Small is relative.
It was only just a few years ago, the submarine r/c trends, (generally) were 1/100 overseas, and 1/96 and 1/72 here in the states. Much larger hulls
With the Revell type VII coming out, that was the begining of the door opening for practical conversions of static plastic hulls.
You are right, the Type VII is a difficult one to do. The Gato made for a far easier conversion, as noted by Merrimen. He was quick to point out many of the Revell Type VII's are sitting in the top shelf of closets right now, and he is right.
Now there are several opprotunities on the market., and with smaller electronics now avalible,and recently (within the past couple of years) WTC smaller than 3 inch, (thank you Dave and David), and more hulls coming out (like the Seaview), it is possible to get into the hobby for far less.
A good thing.
However, the larger, fiberglass hulls have their place too. This is a craft, not a hobby. To see what I saw last summer running in the water was awsome. I dare not begin to name names as I might accidentally leave someone out who deserves it, bu tthe craftsmen where there. Innovators and tinkerers. The big boats have the room for options and gee wizz's , and a chance to cahllange the abilities of the builder far more than the plastic hulls. Also, the larger hulls have a more scale apperance in behavior in the water, in my opinion.
So, both have advantages, and we all win.
To be honest, I cannot wait to see what has been in the works this winter, and too see again a group of friends come together and share a common interest.
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Postby Sub culture » Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:43 pm

Solutions have been available for the Revell Type VII for a long time.

There is Norbert Bruggens conversion kit-

http://www.modelluboot.de/KITS/VII/VIIc.html

Big Dave's experimenters module-

http://www.frontiernet.net/~bwelch/viic.htm

and last but not least, Dave Merriman now offers a conversion kit for this model, but it doesn't seem to be listed on Mike Caswell's site yet.

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Postby hakkikt » Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:25 pm

A few years ago, at the Neulengbach meeting in Austria, I saw a 1/144 Revell Type 209 converted to static diver. For those who don't know the model: length is ~40 cm (16") and beam is ~4 cm (1.6").
It was a single-hull construction, and the guy used Bowden cables to work around the serious space limitations. Propeller torque was a serious problem, and he said that he had built the sub to dive statically as an engineering challenge, and that it would it would work better as a dynamic diver.
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Postby Warpatroller » Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:28 pm

Bowden cable use in a very small model is a clever idea.. Thanks for mentioning it Hakkikt.

As far as solutions being available for a long time on the Revell VII, I had totally forgotten about the Norbert Bruggen design. Has anyone on this forum actually used his setup? His site states it uses a peristaltic pump for the ballast system, this is a water pump ballast I assume?...it is not clear from the info on his site. His German only PDF instructions show a photo of the power source being nine 800 mAh AAA batteries for 10.8 volts, but the accompanying text states 12 of these batteries which would be 14.4 volts. Why such high voltage for a model the size of the Revell VII? I would rather use five AA 2500mAh for 6 volts. Unclear with Bruggen's if you have to fabricate your own appendages, make your own rudder and plane shafts etc. Would be nice to see an english translation of his PDF instructions.

Big Dave's experimenter module is best for people that want to do just that, experiment. If your not looking to make an experiment of your Revell VII (as in wanting something you can assemble and not have to try to recreate by purchasing all of the internal parts separately and fabricating your own control linkages and appendages), then Bruggen or Merriman's rigs would be a better choice, at least I think.

Speaking of Merriman's converstion kit, I was not aware that such a thing even existed yet.. Are you sure he has even started making it yet? I don't think it is on Caswell's site, because it has yet to be designed and even produced. Last I heard he said he might start work on it once the Mobieus Seaview conversion is finished.
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Postby Sub culture » Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:35 pm

I've seen pictures of the Dave's conversion. He's adapted the gato wtc to fit the smaller Type VII.

With regards to the Bruggen kit, 12 volts is a better alternative than 6 volts in any model. Higher voltages equal lower current, smaller wires, more efficient motors etc.

BEC's work much better too.

Generally electronic speed controls aren't 100% efficient, they lose a bit by chopping the signal up, perhaps Norbert has factored this in by adding a couple of extra cells.

You can use the kit control surfaces.

The peristaltic pump works by pumping water in and out of a small flexible bag (ballon) located inside the hull. This system works well, but can be a little slow.

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Postby Rogue Sub » Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:51 pm

Well this seems to be a hot topic so far.

As far as I am concerned this boat qualifies as a small boat. The actual Sub Driver size is a 2" dia. Originally the boat had a 2.5" with a taper endcap much like the Seawold kit but it did not allow for the addition of foam and weight to ballast the boat so the the whole thing was done over from scratch. The construction of this Sub Driver from start to finish can ofcourse be read in the subpirates members forum.

Once the Sub Driver arrives i will give you a few comparisons to show just how crammed everything is. I also do not share your opinion of the Kilo being a fat one. I have both models sitting here and comparably the width is the same but, length wise there is no comparison. Dont worry I will do a write up on the Revel Type IIVc once the Kilo is complete and as usual I will be using a D&E Sub Driver. Personally I feel the the Seawolf Sub Driver is a work of art aswell. Everything has to be micro to fit inside, and it does so just barely.

Well, with that crap out of the way.

Production has been delayed for 2 days on the Kilo do to a fun run with SubComDeepSouth. This required me to do a quick up keep on my boats to ensure a succesful run. So, what I am really trying to say is... I have only glued the two lower hulls together. Ill get the evercoat mixed and ready to go on SUNDAY. Cant wait to start this little baby!

Wayne.. may the force be with you.
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Postby Rogue Sub » Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:11 pm

Well, I finally got started with the Kilo after going through some major setbacks with my other models. It would seem I needed to do something positive involving a submarine before I ran over the lot of them with my car. So I went ahead and started the work that is possible without the fittings kit and sub driver.

The very first step to any sub build (that isn't made from scratch) is to get it out of the box.


Image

As usual it came in a coffin of styrene peanuts, that inevitably ended up all over my garage floor. What a joy. At least the kid seems to think they are lots of fun. I then removed the shrink wrap from the model box and had a peak inside. Yup everything is there and intact. How do I know? Well, I have built this boat once already about a year ago. That also means that I am not surprised this time to find that the hull comes in 3 pieces. A little odd considering every other sub model I've built comes in 2 piece. Actually this turns out to be a good thing for this model. The third top piece is cut right along the water line. This means you don't even have to make a hull cut to access your Sub Driver. What did I say? So easy a cave man could do it!

So the first obvious step for this model is to assemble the two lower halves.

Image

Simple task right...... Yup your right. To get the two halves together I first removed all the plastic injection points with a file and sandpaper. I then gave the two halves a bath in some "hot and soapy" to get all the film off of them. Now I merely aligned the to halves and spot glued them at the front and back using a dab of medium CA. I then plastiwelded the rest together in 4inch segments so that I could ensure correct alignment. So, why plastiweld over just using CA on the whole thing? Well Timmy that is because although CA is strong, and the ductape of the model world, it is brittle. A few impacts with the pool wall or another boat and you might get a hull crack. That's bad mojo. The plastiweld makes a great bond that is flexible.

So, that was a pretty easy task wasn't it but try as hard as you might there will be gaps. Why would there be gaps though? The answer to that is easy and you can find the answer yourself. Get the top half of the model and flip it over. All the answers you need are right there in writing.

For me the next logical step is to fill the gaps. A seamless model is a happy model!

Image

For this I used Evercoat Metal Glaze. When using this stuff i recommend making small batches. About the size of a quarter I find is best. The reason for this is that it hardens in about 5 minutes. There is no more waiting for it to air dry like squadron putty. Its ready for filing almost immediately but does work best when left to set completely for a few minutes.

Of course I am the impatient type so after I got the filler on my hull I moved on to the sail.

Image

I first prepared the sail pieces the same way I did on the hull.

Image

Once again I used the same technique as the hull and tacked to two halves in place with CA and then plastiwelded them together.

Image

I then did the same to the top and of course filled the gaps with Evercoat.
OK time to let that bad boy set up and move on to the top half of the hull.

Image

Sorry for the fuzzy picture on this one but its to late now so you'll have to deal with it. To get started on the upper hull I got out my 1/32 drill bit. Now, I have found that it is almost impossible to get a 1/32 drill bit at a local store. The only way I have found them is in the little Dremel drill sets. Get one. They are awesome. Anyway, I first went around the hull and drilled out all the holes in the side. I think they might be countermeasure but, I have no idea. You want certain, contact Wayne Frey! I then went around using the same bit and drilled 2 or 3 holes in each of the upper hull vents to open them up for my xacto knife. Using my xacto knife I carefully cut a rough rectangle out of the vents. I then used my flat jeweler's file to open up then vents to equal size. Now every time you file plastic with a fine grade file it will leave a kind of lip in the back. I simply went around the inside of the model with my xacto knife again and removed it.

I also took the time to take a scribe and deepen all of the scribe lines on the upper hull and sail. This will ensure that after primer and paint the details will still show. The key to this is to use a very sharp point and take your time. Trace over it once very slowly, then go back again a little deeper. Don't forget to clean out the left over plastic when your done. Also, if you make a mistake (and I always do) you can just fill the mistake in. Don't worry!!!!!

Image

This is what the finished product looks like.

Now that all that junk was done it was time to go back to the sail. And clean it up.

Image

I first took down the thicker parts of evercoat with a file and then went back over the rest using sand paper. Once everything was down and smooth I gave it a shot of primer to show the mistakes. Yeah that's right its red primer and I don't give a crap. I ran out of grey OK, and I don't let simple things as this hold me up. I found a few places that still required attention and fixed them again.

Next I used my 1/16" drill bit and drilled out all of the sail windows. I then used my square jeweler's file to open them up to size. I may try to make clear windows for these or just leave them open. I have not yet decided. I also removed the back wall of the bridge to allow for a place that air can easily escape. I did this by drilling a couple holes, then cutting it out using a very sharp xacto knife.

Image

Time for another shot of primer to make sure everything is good.

One of the things I hated about making this kit the first time was the flimsy railings and crapy masts. I plan to remedy this problem on this go around.

Image

First step was the railings. I got some 1/32" brass rod and cut it to the same length as the rail I was going to replace. I then tried to copy the angle as much as possible by bending it with my thumbs. Then I taped the piece to a scrap piece of wood and using a pencil marked where the railings needed to be. Scientific isn't it!! I then took some lengths of brass and lined them up next to the rail and taped them in place. Next apply heat and solder and bang you have the beginnings of a quality railing.

Image

Next I trimmed the pieces to length and used the left overs to continue the railing.

Image

Before you know it you have a complete set of railings ready for install.

Now the original railing is only glued in using on rung after every two. this means you'll need to get out that 1/32 bit again and drill holes for the new rungs. Lay a flexible ruler down and make a guide line using the other holes to help you find the right spot. Now you only need to figure out where to frill the holes. I used another scientific method to to mine. I put my railing on the sail and used it to scratch the primer where the rungs were. The I drilled the holes and installed the railing. To glue it in I applied CA on the inside of the sail and then cut the excess railing.

Image

Here is a shot of the sail with the railings installed and a few of the masts I've been working on. More on those next time!
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SAAAAYYY

Postby g2tiger » Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:46 pm

Kevin,

I'll send mine right over....Check the oil and all that jazz.
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Postby Rogue Sub » Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:41 pm

Oh really Charlie! Well just go ahead and send it to me. Cant promise how long it will take, but it will probably be sooner then if you did it!!!
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Postby kazzer » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:09 am

I have clipped a ton of information from David Merriman's KILO Cabal reports, (leaving a little of his unique style where possible) and turned it into a pdf file. This will be available on a disk with the Sub-driver kit.

You can download this from www.moonrakers.com/kilo.pdf for the next week or so. Its a large file, due to the many large photos, some 32mb, so it may take a while to download.

If you can think of anything else I need to add to make these instriuctions more 'Dummy Proof' please let me know!

BTW As for making Merriman president of SC, sorry guys, you can't have him! He's MINE! He's locked up in his cave and Rose (his granddaughter) is the keeper of the keys. We like to poke him with a stick through the bars now and again, and throw him an odd piece of red meat.

His life is now that of a troll, churning out Sub-drivers and other goodies! This is his punishment for being so nasty over the years! A fitting end, don't you think?

:lol: :lol:
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Postby kazzer » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:24 am

Warpatroller says:- Speaking of Merriman's converstion kit, I was not aware that such a thing even existed yet.. Are you sure he has even started making it yet? I don't think it is on Caswell's site, because it has yet to be designed and even produced. Last I heard he said he might start work on it once the Mobieus Seaview conversion is finished.

The design of this Sub-driver is almost complete, as it is almost a straight drop-in from the Seaview!

Image
Image

The Sub-driver is a 2" diameter version and it slides directly into the wider section of the hull. Unlike the Gato, there is NO HULL CUTTING involved! Yea!

I have DOZENS of requests for this model, and David is about 1-2 months away from a production run. Prices will be similar to the Seaview Sub-driver, and the Revell Kit price can be seen at www.caswellplating.com/models.htm

SO, if you think you'd like to reserve one (we don't want your money - yet) let me know NOW please!


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