Banner Ad 1

Anechoic tiling

Static Submarine modelers unite!

Anechoic tiling

Postby woodstock74 » Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:38 pm

Has anyone attempted this detail in scale? It seems very prominent close up. Perhaps by a painting technique?
woodstock74
Registered User
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:50 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Postby Bob the Builder » Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:05 pm

I did this on my 1/96 Typhoon project. Looks good from a distance, but up close it doesn't hold up to scrutiny.:


Image

The tiles are individual vinyl tiles cut with a plotter. You can put them on in sheets or individually. Once stuck, they won't come off, especially after you get a coat of paint on them.
Bob Martin,
RCSub homepage: http://www.rc-sub.com
User avatar
Bob the Builder
SubCommittee Member
 
Posts: 782
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:40 am
Location: Naples, FL

Postby PaulC » Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:20 pm

There was an extensive thread on this at some point a year or so back. I tried to search anechoic tile and didn't find it. The main methods proposed were painting techniques and scribing.

I scribed the tile in my 1/96 LA last year and was pleased with the results. Just haven't had time to go back and do the hull. The link for that thread is here:
http://s181686668.onlinehome.us/phpBB2/viewtopic.php5?t=4621&highlight=.
Warm regards,

Paul Crozier
<><
User avatar
PaulC
SubCommittee Member
 
Posts: 1155
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2003 11:11 pm
Location: Houston, Texas

Postby woodstock74 » Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:00 pm

PaulC wrote:There was an extensive thread on this at some point a year or so back. I tried to search anechoic tile and didn't find it. The main methods proposed were painting techniques and scribing.

I scribed the tile in my 1/96 LA last year and was pleased with the results. Just haven't had time to go back and do the hull. The link for that thread is here:
http://s181686668.onlinehome.us/phpBB2/viewtopic.php5?t=4621&highlight=.


That looks really good. Though am I wasting my time trying to attempt this in 1/350?
woodstock74
Registered User
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:50 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Postby JWLaRue » Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:10 pm

Paul,

Maybe this is the thread?

http://s181686668.onlinehome.us/phpBB2/ ... highlight=

-Jeff
Rohr 1.....Los!
User avatar
JWLaRue
SubCommittee Member
 
Posts: 3895
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 1994 6:00 pm
Location: Annapolis, MD

Postby PaulC » Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:30 pm

Jeff,

Yes, that's the one I put up.

But I seem to recall a longer one (started by Mermaid in my recollection) where Marc of FX gave detailed instructions on masking, templates, shade variations, etc. he uses to simulate the tiles with paint. Try as I might I can't find it.

And yes, IMO, you shouldn't worry about it in 1/350. There has been more than a little debate over whether it's necessary in 1/96. :D
Warm regards,

Paul Crozier
<><
User avatar
PaulC
SubCommittee Member
 
Posts: 1155
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2003 11:11 pm
Location: Houston, Texas

Postby Gerwalk » Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:20 am

Woodstock: what is the boat? The new Alanger's Typhoon in 1/350 ? In that case the tiling is really missed. Those tiles are even seen in the smallest photos of the real thing. Trying to scribe them is an option but a painful one at this scale... I guesstimate that they are 60 cm long so in 1/350 that is: 1.7 mm long. Not easy to scribe that.
Pablo
User avatar
Gerwalk
Registered User
 
Posts: 525
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 1:39 pm
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Postby JWLaRue » Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:35 pm

Ahh...I do remember that thread. There are actually two threads that make up that entire conversation:

http://s181686668.onlinehome.us/phpBB2/ ... highlight=

http://s181686668.onlinehome.us/phpBB2/ ... highlight=

-Jeff
Rohr 1.....Los!
User avatar
JWLaRue
SubCommittee Member
 
Posts: 3895
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 1994 6:00 pm
Location: Annapolis, MD

Postby Scott T » Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:25 pm

Here are some painting tips I copied from Marc of FX off an old post.
Maybe someone can locate the original post.

Quote (jutland67 @ Dec. 26 2005,23:29)
Hi Marc, a while ago you gave a superb and very detailed description
of how you produced the finish on your DSRV and it gave some really
good techniques which I hope to attempt on my current build of a 1/72nd
scale OTW Trafalgar class kit. What I am doing is making some small
changes to the hull and rudders so that I can model the slightly earlier
Swiftsure class sub H.M.S. Spartan as she was in the early 1980's
( conveniently this was also before the fitting of ancheoic tiles to the sub !! )

I have a good idea of how to simulate a metallic finish on a sub
(thanks to your DSRV tutorial ) , but now I wonder if you could give your
advice on how best to achieve the following :

(i). What color primer should one use on a hull that is going to be simulating
the black metal finish of a Cold-war era sub ?

(ii). The hull is matt black painted metal ( No tiles ), and I have been told that
using black paint will give a finish that doesn't look realistic. I have been told
that a very very dark grey might be better... but what colors would you use to
achieve the look of a weathered hull ?

(iii). The last sub I built ( a 1/96th D&E "Skipjack")was a great looking boat, but
although I used an airbrush to spray her black , I always felt that she looked like
a "submarine-shaped-piece-of-GRP-painted-black" rather than a scale model....what
do you suggest are the best ways to get a realistic looking cold war sub look ?

(iv). How would you suggest the best way to get the look of a non-slip section of
deck ? ( I was thinking of spraying a section,then before it drys put a VERY light
dusting of talcum powder or similar, then another coat of color over the top).

I really would appreciate any advice Marc, I would very much like to get this sub
looking "scale " and it would be great to hear your ideas.

Hi James,

I would be happy to give you some advice. First of all that flat black or matte black
finish on boats is something to shy away from as you suspect because there is no
actual 'black' anything. Very dark grey is the best for a base color. But, that said,
you go dark grey and then you will use a number of lighter shades.
Order of painting is important by the way. The order below is punctuated with
descriptions of each step.

Painting Order 1-5 with descriptions

1: Base coat
For an answer to base coat selection in your questions, use a dark grey almost black.
Heat the paint can in hot water before spraying. This is a must! Otherwise you will not
get the smooth finish you require for scale. The paint can be ultra-flat because when
we are done it will be metallic looking. You NEED to control the sheen as you will see
so use as flat a coat as possible.

2: Panel Large scale subtle details
As far as the rest of the bland large surfaces of the boat, here is where you need to
use some observation of boats in drydock. In some cases, you have areas of the boat
that show whole panels that are brighter by a shade but typically not darker. It could
have been a slight difference in paint or a drydock repair that caused this subtle
difference but I have seen many subs in drydock directly and can tell you that NO
sub is homogeneous in color along its length. There are always fairly large areas
of difference. A few [not many] 15-30 foot areas of difference here and there will do
wonders. These areas are tied to the outer hull plating and do not necessarily follow
frame lines. Further, they are also sometimes at different GLOSS levels too which is
a neat little trick that works well [further below at final finish this comes into play].
Weathered detail that follows frame lines is discussed next...


3: Panel dishing subtle detail
Weathering detail may coincide with the frame lines and the outer hull steel between
them. When you see a submarine or boat that has been at sea for a long period of time
or has been managed by tugs, you see a 'dishing' of the steel between frame lines...
You see this on submarine sails too from time to time. You can simulate it with paint by
simply calling out ever so subtely the frame locations with a SLIGHTLY lighter color than
the main hull. This adds realism to the boat immediately. Do not overdo it and use it
sparingly. If you notice, submarine sails too have TONS of weathering detail, sometimes
more than the rest of the boat in fact! Its an odd incongruity that I think is the nature of the
fact that the sail is the highest point on the boat and during surface running is usually
untouched in the upper areas by water unlike the deck which will wash at times.

4: Non-skid and metallic finish
A metal looking hull has a deep sheen ... This sheen is easily attainable with a subtle
assist... The non skid is deceptively simple to simulate as well and I will talk about
that first before going onto the metallic sheen because one depends on the other.
For non-skid, two ways come to mind. Use a slightly lighter grey and paint the outline
of the area that is non-skid. [NOTE: There are two schools of thought here. When wet
the non-skid looks DARKER than the hull and when dry it looks lighter... Pick your poison! ].
Once you have painted the appropriate outline of non-skid, NOW you do the work to
make it look like non-skid. Here is how and this directly relates to the final metallic
sheen. Cut a mask that can be placed OVER the non-skid pattern you created. Better
yet, preserve the original mask you created the pattern with and use it to make a new
one of the previously OPEN part of the mask with low tack masking tape or paper. This
can be precisely placed over the non-skid deck section to protect it from what is to follow.
Low tack tape is the best for this once the top deck is thoroughly cured and dried. Once
the mask is in place, now take a cotton rag and begin rubbing the paint finish gently. It
does not matter which way you go. You are producing a metal shipyard finish on the boat.
You may have to rub vigorously but this will produce a sheen on the boat that will be
inconsistent [good!] and will produce the desired effect. The rubbing out effect will hit
every area of the boat except the masked off area[s]. You may choose to mask off some
panels too on the hull that you wish to see remain flatter for some weathering effect.
If you do. pick panels that you previously painted in the large subtle hull area panels.
After rubbing out the boat to satisfaction remove the mask(s) and you will see an
immediate difference between the flat non-skid and the metallic look. Done! And it
looks great! The textured non-skid would not be terribly visible at typical RC scales
so dont bother with that unless you really want some huge bumps on the deck!

5: Waterline and 'scum', seagull poop on rudder etc...
Weathering is LAST to go on as it is LAST to apply to the boat in real life. The
difference in sheen of weathered detail and 'scum' makes it appear as if its a 'coating'
of undesired stuff on the boat. Just like in real life. This is the final lynchpin in realism
and you will amaze yourself.
The weathered hull comes from observing boats in drydock. Even though boats with
tiles look different, what you care about is that the overall weathering patterns are the
SAME as far as color. You will find the pierside waterlines which have deep greens
and white mixed with browns, subtley ringing the waterline. They are not thick lines
either. They are only approximately 12" thick at scale perhaps slightly larger. They
are somewhat hard edged at the top and trail off in a subtle manner below. Because
of wave nature, the top line averages out to be pretty darn straight! So dont be fooled
into making the line waver at all.
Well... Those are my thoughts. I am glad i had some time before getting back to work
here. This was a good break. I hope that helps James! Let me know if you have more
questions!

Marc
User avatar
Scott T
SubCommittee Member
 
Posts: 564
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 2:01 pm
Location: Oklahoma City, OK

Postby PaulC » Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:16 pm

That's the thread I was thinking about. Thanks, Scott!
Warm regards,

Paul Crozier
<><
User avatar
PaulC
SubCommittee Member
 
Posts: 1155
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2003 11:11 pm
Location: Houston, Texas

Postby woodstock74 » Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:48 pm

Gerwalk wrote:Woodstock: what is the boat? The new Alanger's Typhoon in 1/350 ? In that case the tiling is really missed. Those tiles are even seen in the smallest photos of the real thing. Trying to scribe them is an option but a painful one at this scale... I guesstimate that they are 60 cm long so in 1/350 that is: 1.7 mm long. Not easy to scribe that.


Zvezda's Oscar II. At 1.7 mm...yeah, I'm pretty sure that would drive me crazy scribbing those! I'm going to have to read through some of the painting techniques described above and see if there is anything there I can realistically use given my patience and skill level. But I think that's the one thing I see missing in a lot of builds, the tonal variations across the hull's length. So whether I scribe 1.7 mm lines or create macro tonal changes, if done correctly, the effect may be what I'm after. How may of you guys use rattle cans?
woodstock74
Registered User
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:50 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Postby woodstock74 » Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:48 pm

Had a thought on the way in to work this morning. Wondering if a macro hint of anechoic tiling might be possible to achieve by a masking and paint shade variation technique. I sketched this out:

Image

Basically the idea is to create with tape masking a somewhat random yet geometric pattern that mimics the tiling to an extent and paint large areas differing tones of black (flat, semi, gloss) that have their outer extents definded by these "jagged" maskings. The idea is to create a very subtle tonal change. And short of doing this by creating individual tiles, I thought that perhaps if you created this in large swaths you might be able to achieve an interesting effect. I won't argue if it is accurate or not, but modeling is about illusion and excuting the principle. Any thoughts?
woodstock74
Registered User
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:50 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Postby Gerwalk » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:31 am

I've seen model airplanes painted using a shade variation to give the ilusion of small panels, the effect is excellent.

I was thinking on some ideas to achieve a tiling effect for a while. One I'm considering is using a metallic mesh (like the ones used in windows and doors to keep bugs away) as a mask.

I've found a mesh that has small enough (for 1/350 scale) and almost square "holes". One idea is to paint the entire sub in black and red hull, cut sections of the mesh and fix them on top of the sub using 3M non permanent spray cement or just hold it in place by tape or rubber bands. Then spray lighter shades of the base colors (grey and light red or even brown grey. In theory after removing the mesh the base color would be seen on the edges giving the feeling of tiling. the problem would be to mold the the mesh arround the bow and stern...
Pablo
User avatar
Gerwalk
Registered User
 
Posts: 525
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 1:39 pm
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Postby PaulC » Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:34 pm

As far as the proposed paint techniques go, they sound like they should work. I'd suggest trying them on a spare hull if you have one. Or a length of PVC pipe. That way you can get the hang of it and judge for yourself how good it looks. Please post pics when you do.
Warm regards,

Paul Crozier
<><
User avatar
PaulC
SubCommittee Member
 
Posts: 1155
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2003 11:11 pm
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Anechoic tiling

Postby woodstock74 » Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:30 pm

Figured I'd update this...


Image

Image

Image

Image

Done using masking tape cut in random patterns and using different brands (this is important) of black spray paint. Not all blacks are the same, and the very subtle tonal variation, coupled with the tape line created the effect (look closely). I'm satisfied with it, though need to observe USN subs to see if the effect is relevant. I tend to think Russian subs being a bit more "sloppy" from an anecoic tile perspective (Royal Navy too: Trafalgars are good examples). But most times it seems USN sub's tiles are in good shape and the "jagged" nature of my masking might not be relevant...
woodstock74
Registered User
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:50 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC


Return to Static Modeler

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron