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Newbie looking for help

This is the place to post your submarine build- ups.

Newbie looking for help

Postby rubsterwine » Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:20 pm

I am just starting and am going to do boat, scratch build. I sent for a couple of videos three months ago but they have not found my way yet.
My question is there are a lot of blogs on this sight which ones would be the best ones for me to see a scratch build through completion. Also I am going to build a post world war 2 boat with a superstructure, do I need to do the boat first and do the superstructure seperate or do it all together. I hope to make it fully functionable. When I say superstructure it is not like a nuke where basically there isn't much walking surface, I'm sure You know what I mean. Any and all help would be appreciated.
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Postby JWLaRue » Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:48 pm

I would say that any of the build threads would suffice. The difference in nuke vs. WW2 boats is really minimal in terms of the construction techniques. Yes, there is more detail, but we're still talking about parts masters, molds, and making parts.

That said, the two threads that I'd suggest are Mylo's Type VIIC (currently in three parts: http://s181686668.onlinehome.us/phpBB2/viewtopic.php5?t=5376&highlight=type+vii
http://s181686668.onlinehome.us/phpBB2/viewtopic.php5?t=6267&highlight=type+vii
http://s181686668.onlinehome.us/phpBB2/viewtopic.php5?t=6556&highlight=type+vii

.... and Pete's Ohio: http://s181686668.onlinehome.us/phpBB2/viewtopic.php5?t=6264&highlight=

-enjoy,

Jeff
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Boat building

Postby Mike Dory » Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:51 pm

HI, and welcome to the hobbie. I must say that is a tall order you have set for someone just starting out. Depending on your experence in model building, working with fiberglass, lexan, plastic, brass, ETC. You may be taking on more then you realize. Maybe it would be best to start with a hull kit and get it to run before you start building everything from scratch. That said, Look around and see who as an operating sub in your area. whom you could ask questions of. Go to a regatta, bring a camera and a note pad, see who's boat is running well, one that you might like to build. bring lots of film..... Ask for back orders of the Sub Committee Report. check out the differnt diving systems and see which ones you feel most comfortable with building and will fit in what size model you have in mind. Check out your transportation, see what size model you can carry Do you have help moving this model or are you on your own. Everyone here will be happy to help, we all started where you are. Best Wishes Mike Dory
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Postby Mylo » Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:42 pm

Mike, while I do agree with you 100% in that a scratch build is a major undertaking for the inexperienced and that without question, a kit is much simpler. ....AND...that a modeler should give it a great deal of thought before attempting a scratch build.

However,

I also believe that if ANY modeler, regardless of their experience level, with an interest, and enough self motivation, they can see a scratch build through to completion, learning the skills and gaining the experience needed. Make no mistake, it is a steep learning curve that requires many hours of research, but until you jump in, you'll never figure it out. The more you "bite off" simply meaning the more you learn in the process....or....the greater the liklihood that the thing never gets finished, depends on your personality type.

I do caution any first timer. Be prepared for your project to take longer and cost more than you expected......whatever your estimate is. To give you an example, I estimated my VIIc/41 build to take me 200 hours at a cost of $1200. I'm well over 3X that on both counts and it's not in the water yet. Just fair warning. Go into your project with this realization might help you when it starts coming true.

If you've got the drive, go for it, it's very rewarding. If not, buy a kit. ...that's about the best one line advice I can give.

Mylo
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Postby SteveUK » Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:31 am

Mylo wrote:I do caution any first timer. Be prepared for your project to take longer and cost more than you expected......

Mylo I would also like to add " ...Be prepared also for your sub to sink!"

My scratch build was also a first foray into r/c subs. Indeed it was a steep learning curve. And she went on a few voyages to the bottom without me :wink: I can laugh now. I was fortunate the pool is only 4ft deep so I was able to fish her out and try to figure out "what went wrong this time!?".
Inexperience led to flaws in my fibreglassing (parts of it were not watertight) . Also some of my well thought out home sprung ballast system ideas weren't as safe as I thought. Going down is easy - coming back up is the hard bit.

Having said all that..I wouldn't change a thing. Trying to scratchbuild a r/c submarine is an exciting challenge, and I had lots of fun along the way.

Good luck on your voyage rubsterwine.

What material are you planning to build your model out of :?:
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Postby rubsterwine » Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:25 am

I plan on building it up with foam and solid bulkheads as a number of sights show, along with covering that with duct tape, then fiberglassing over the top of that before slicing open and inserting necessary hardware and electronics. Any and all suggestions would be appreciated, still hoping the videos I ordered in August will arrive before I get to cutting up the cardboard or wood bulkheads. Thanks for all Your support and help in this matter.

Rubsterwine
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Postby SteveUK » Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:08 pm

Yes that is a good way of going about it.

You will need to keep your bulkheads in line somehow during construction.

Have you done fibreglassing before :?:
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Postby rubsterwine » Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:59 pm

No I have never done any fiberglass work, but I have always been able to do whatever I put my mind to, time will tell
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Postby SteveUK » Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:46 am

My advice about fibreglassing (with polyester type resin) is;

Thermal characteristics.
1. Take note of the temperature in your room. If it is a hot day the resin will set up a lot faster - you can end up wasting a lot if you mix up too much in one go - it will set in the cup before you can use it!

If it is a very cold day it will set up very slowly. But below a certain temperature, the resin will not set. Ever! It will remain permenatly tacky and the whole project is ruinned.


2. The larger the quantity of resin mixed up in one go the faster it will set in the cup, as the concentrated thermal reactions heat the whole batch up faster. It is best to keep mixing up small manageable batches of resin as you use it.

Applying the Glass matt.
1. Wear gloves! The strands are glass and feel uncomfortable and prickley against skin. Not to mention the resin which is very stickey and will not wash off your hands with anything normal!

2. Pre-cut your peices of matt to fit around the hull shapes, positioning them on dry before you mix up any resin. Then carefully remove the pieces and arrange them in order on the table, ready to go. This will save you time and nervous enrgy when you start applying the resin.

3. It is important that the glass matt is fully impregnated with resin. If not then your hull can have areas of structural weakness and be perforated with tiny holes in, ie not fully watertight. So take each piece of matt and impregnate it from both sides with mixed resin using a stiff brush. Then lay it on the hull. When applying the resin always use a stipple action - never brush (brushing seperates the glass strands). Stab the brush to get the matt into corners, (the matt is a lot more pliable when soaked in resin).
Steadily cover the hull, overlapping any joins in the matt pieces.

One layer of matt may result in a weak hull, you may need two layers.



Good luck with the project.

btw What submarine type are you building exactly :?:
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Postby Chuck Chesney » Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:46 am

Just an opinion, but it's based on a couple decades of running model submarines...
I think that the post by Mike Dory is the best advice on this thread.
Remember that building the hull is just the start, and you get into the really complicated and technical (and expensive) things AFTER the hull is finished.
There are probably dozens of partially built submarine models sitting in garages and basements, because the builders, while full of enthusiasm and possessing very competent skill levels, found out that they bit off far more than they could chew. A model submarine is, for the most part, far more complicated to build than an R/C aircraft, and is light years ahead of R/C cars and trucks.
The probability for success with your model will increase dramatically if you take a little slower approach, and give heavy consideration to a kit for the first effort. You probably don't want to see your project, and about a thousand dollars worth of model, sitting in the mud at the bottom of a lake, never to be seen again.
Chuck

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Postby rubsterwine » Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:15 am

Thanks guys for all the good information, all is definetly appreciated so keep it coming and I will absorb all I can.

Rubsterwine
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