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Postby SKABOO » Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:36 pm

Hi all,
hope this post is in the correct section, this is my first post on the Sub Committee's site, i'm not new to the building of rc subs and have scratch built my own dynamic divers in the past, however I now wish to progress onto static divers but am having some difficulty in sourcing components for the construction of wtc's, can any one help with a list of suppliers, for these components and any others that may be usefull.
thanks Jim
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Postby Sub culture » Fri Oct 21, 2005 2:37 pm

What ballast system do you wish to use?

What workshop facilities (if any) do you possess?

How much of the work are you prepared to do yourself?

Andy




Edited By Sub culture on 1129920008
'Why are you staring at an empty pond?'

Want to dive your boat in crystal clear water? Then you had better Dive-in- http://www.diveintomodelsubmarines.co.uk
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Postby Adz131 » Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:36 am

I am also looking into which type of ballast system to use i have plans for an S-class and plans/drawing's for a T-class on the way

The S-class dimension's are

Length 80"
width 10"

I did think about using the engel piston tank's but im not sure if the 825ml unit's would be sufficent.

I also thought about the waterpump system that's used in sheerline/eden submarine wtc.

Anyone got any suggestion's?

Sub culture?
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Postby Davy » Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:48 am

Association of model submariners, UK has a review on their website:

www.modelsubmarines.org

A good review but rest of site is getting dated.

I like the pressure pumped system but this does need the right pump - e.g a "gear" pump able to produce about 2 bars. (Red cased Graupner pump sold as a fuel pump to our flying friends does the trick.)
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Postby Davy » Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:53 am

Association of model submariners, UK has a review on their website:

www.modelsubmarines.org

A good review but rest of site is getting dated.

I like the pressure pumped system but this does need the right pump - e.g a "gear" pump able to produce about 2 bars. (Red cased Graupner pump sold as a fuel pump to our flying friends does the trick.)
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Postby Davy » Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:57 am

Oh dear!

I've been checking the site again and it has been updated recently and is actually looking good.

It even has a discussion on the "free surface effect" on sub stability which IMHO has not been given enough attention in model sub design.
Davy
 

Postby Adz131 » Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:32 am

Thanks for the link davy.

I've just be on the engel website they say that the 750ml tank's are sufficent for a model upto 2mtr and that it will raise the conning tower and deck upto the correct waterline.

Does anyone on here have experience with the engel tank's that could cast some light onto the subject?

best regards adam
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Postby Sub culture » Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:46 pm

That's a very generic statement on the Engel site, a 750ml tank may well be enough for many models, but others may need more, some may need less.

Generally speaking, the older boats tend to have higher freeboard, so you will very likely need a larger tank to sink these beasts.

Also how is the boat being built- wet hull or dry hull?

Does any of the watertight enclosure, be it box, cylinder whatever project above the surfaced waterline?

The way to size the ballast tank has been well documented on this site in the past. Do a little searching and you'll find some answers.

Piston tanks offer a very precise method of ballasting a submarine, however if you use a single tank, you will end up with a shifting C.G as you fill and empty the tank. The longer and slimmer the tank, the worse the problem becomes.

In the real world this isn't as big an issue as you think, as submarines tend to adopt a nose down/nose up attitude as they submerge/surface anyway.

However one way of overcoming this is to use twin tanks that work in opposite directions.

Waterpump systems work well enough, and are very cheap to build and operate. One problem I have noticed in the Sheerline models, is inadequate baffling of the ballast tank.

A fellow club member purchased a S/H Eden nee Sheerline Trafalgar class sub recently.

The boat had been constructed well enough, but he was disappointed with the handling, as it had a tendency to 'wallow' in the pitch axis.

We put this down to a half filled ballast tank 'sloshing', as the dynamic stability of such a model should be good, and it had plenty of lead in it's belly to effect a decent metacentric height.

The tank was dismantled, and one baffle found inside- inadequate IMHO for a tank that size.

The tank has been shortened (it's going in a different hull) and extra baffles inserted. Test runs are imminent.

So the moral is, if you use a ballast sytem that incoporates an exposed water surface, baffle your tank well if you want a stable boat.

Piston tanks don't have this worry- no exposed water surface.

Andy
'Why are you staring at an empty pond?'

Want to dive your boat in crystal clear water? Then you had better Dive-in- http://www.diveintomodelsubmarines.co.uk
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Postby Adz131 » Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:31 pm

Thanks andy.

The boat will be wet hull. Constructed of grp.

I will have to check over the plans regarding height of the wtc cylinder.

It would be twin 825ml tanks that i would be using.

regards adam
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Postby SteveUK » Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:18 pm

Do you know about SUBTECH ?
at
http://www.rcmodelsubs.com/

Loads of sub stuff, levellers, WTC's, etc, here in UK.
"...Eeeexcellent..."
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Postby Adz131 » Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:18 pm

Already know about sub-tec.

But thanks for the link i forgot to bookmark it last time i looked.

regards adam
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Postby clive » Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:57 am

Davy wrote:[color=#000000]Association of model submariners, UK has a review on their website:

www.modelsubmarines.org

A good review but rest of site is getting dated.
[color]


I have tried to look at the AMS site but their ISP states that no content has been uploaded. Have you another address for them?

Clive
Clive An active pensioner living in Wiltshire, England
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Postby Sub culture » Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:24 pm

The AMS website went offline quite some time ago, and unfortunately hasn't returned.

A new website is 'under construction', allegedly, but I'm not holding my breath.

Andy
'Why are you staring at an empty pond?'

Want to dive your boat in crystal clear water? Then you had better Dive-in- http://www.diveintomodelsubmarines.co.uk
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Postby Davy » Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:46 pm

Sorry that the site is still down - and I recommended it :cry:

It was just a useful review of the different types of dive systems.
A lot of them covered on this website too of course.

What systems did you wish to compare?

IMHO I go for pressure tanks with pump in and pump out and yes lots of baffles.

David
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ASM

Postby clive » Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:31 pm

I asked because I joined them a little over a year ago and eventually received two rather poor magazines and that was it I have never heard from them since not even a request to renew my membership.

Being retired I have to look for value for money and I don't believe I got that from them

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