Banner Ad 1

Paint - question

Post your favorite modeling 'tips' and 'tricks'

Postby Sub culture » Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:23 am

Revell and Humbrol make oil based and acrylic based paints. Both are designed for use with plastics, so will work fine on your Type VII.

Be careful about mixing acrylic and oil based paints. You can paint oil based on top of acrylic, but not vice-versa- the acrylic reacts with the oil base paint.

Also don't discount the Tamiya range of acrylics.

A paint to avoid on plastic models is cellulose base. You can use these paints, but you must use a special plastics primer first. If the cellulose gets into direct contact with the plastic, it'll melt it.

Andy
'Why are you staring at an empty pond?'

Want to dive your boat in crystal clear water? Then you had better Dive-in- http://www.diveintomodelsubmarines.co.uk
User avatar
Sub culture
SubCommittee Member
 
Posts: 2865
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 6:55 am
Location: London, UK

Postby Kapleun Val » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:08 pm

thanks, its just i have loads of humbrol and revell paints from when i made model planes and tanks, i have looked into the tamiya paints as they have some usefull colours in a spray can, im worried about loosing detail by spraying but having brush strokes if i paint by hand
Building Viic by revell as R/C - Any and All help appreciated
User avatar
Kapleun Val
Registered User
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:46 am
Location: London UK

Postby Paul von Braun » Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:18 pm

All you really need is a cheap model spray gun (unless you are doing airbrushed weathering and such like). I got mine for about £10 - humbrol/revell, any common or garden model shop should stock one. You will also need a can of propellant (about £5 or £6).
Dont forget to thin your paint to the consistancy of 'milk' before you spray - I use ordinary white spirit and have done so since I was teenager, with good results. If you want to do any weathering, consider dry brushing by hand.

Paul.
Website detailing OTW Designs Type VIIc build: http://www.u96.freewebspace.com
User avatar
Paul von Braun
Registered User
 
Posts: 253
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: Dorset, England

Postby Kapleun Val » Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:04 am

excellent thanks! jsut got to get teh gun and propellent as ive got litres of white spirit floating around the house! not really sure why ive got it all really! hummm!!!

the "other" paul
Building Viic by revell as R/C - Any and All help appreciated
User avatar
Kapleun Val
Registered User
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:46 am
Location: London UK

Postby Paul von Braun » Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:05 pm

Paul,
I used a can of halfords grey primer as a base coat on my girlfriends revell flower class corvette - it didnt attack the polystyrene. It does attack expanded polystyrene, however. You can safely use enamels over the top of the primer (cellulose paint), but not the primer on top of the enamel paint - it will end up as goo.

In summary - cellulose grey primer as a base, then sprayed enamels over the top of that.

Paul. :D

Dont take my word as gospel - try it on a bit of scrap plasticard first if you feel wary. :D
Website detailing OTW Designs Type VIIc build: http://www.u96.freewebspace.com
User avatar
Paul von Braun
Registered User
 
Posts: 253
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: Dorset, England

Postby Sub culture » Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:07 am

The Halford range of paints are acrylic based. I find they cover very well, with far less shrinkage than cellulose, but like everything else at Halfrauds- ££££££££!!

:D

Andt
'Why are you staring at an empty pond?'

Want to dive your boat in crystal clear water? Then you had better Dive-in- http://www.diveintomodelsubmarines.co.uk
User avatar
Sub culture
SubCommittee Member
 
Posts: 2865
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 6:55 am
Location: London, UK

Postby PaulC » Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:57 am

I've been meaning to jump in on the primer aspect of this thread since I've been in the industrial paint industry for the past 15 years. The primer's main function is to adhere to the substrate, in our case a GRP hull. And whether you have a polyester or epoxy lay-up, an epoxy primer will do the best job. It is extremely tough, chemical resistant, and will adhere far beyond our operational requirements. It is also readily available and affordable when compared to automotive lacquer primers.

Once applied, an epoxy primer will accept any type of topcoat, hobby or otherwise. The primer must be sanded first prior to application to ensure the topcoat will bond properly. Two other things cause topcoats to fail over certain primers: if the solvents contained in the topcoat are stronger than what the primer is formulated for, then it will soften the primer and cause it to wrinkle or lift; if the primer is not cured properly and a topcoat is applied, the top film becomes a barrier to the evaporation of the solvent out of the primer coat and prevents it from curing -- then everything comes off in sheets.

I've applied a base coat of epoxy primer to each of my boats. In hull finishing, it accepts putty, and even conventional primers, easily. In service, I've never scratched down to the fiberglass, the primer always holds. And my finish paints, both Floquil hobby paint, and hardware store aerosol enamels, have never failed in service.

For future nuke projects I plan to prime with black and red oxide epoxy primers on the upper and lower hulls respectively to get me that much further down the road. And the occasional scratch that does reveal the primer will be virtually invisible as a result (gray would perform this function well for U-boats).




Edited By PaulC on 1122296566
Warm regards,

Paul Crozier
<><
User avatar
PaulC
SubCommittee Member
 
Posts: 1148
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2003 11:11 pm
Location: Houston, Texas

Postby Wayne Frey » Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:15 pm

Good words Paul.
Having seen your boats I can tell the committee they are first rate!
Of course, if the curious would come to Sub Ron 5 in august (shameless plug), you could see them there......
SCM #653
SubCommittee Vice President 2006-2008
Author-Russian Submarines, Guardians of the Motherland
Member-Saint Petersburg Russia Submarine Club
User avatar
Wayne Frey
SubCommittee Member
 
Posts: 917
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2003 4:22 pm
Location: Western United States

Postby Tommydeen » Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:00 pm

Yes Paul!! it worked for me real good! that epoxy primer is good stuff. after curing and sanding floquile layed onto the hull very well. one word of caution when you paint with epoxy
you MUST WEAR A RESPORATOR not those cheapy masks you get five in a pack for a few bucks and like all spray painting,
paint in a well ventalated area.

Tom
User avatar
Tommydeen
SubCommittee Member
 
Posts: 209
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2003 2:23 am
Location: Denver Colarado

Postby PaulC » Tue Jul 26, 2005 10:41 am

Hi Tom,

That's great about your paint job. Glad to hear it.

We still need to talk - I want to hear more about your Denver regatta.
Warm regards,

Paul Crozier
<><
User avatar
PaulC
SubCommittee Member
 
Posts: 1148
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2003 11:11 pm
Location: Houston, Texas

Postby expfcwintergreen » Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:08 pm

Hey guys,

Which primer do you use? Where do you pick it up?

Thanks!
Chris
expfcwintergreen
 

Postby Sub culture » Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:41 pm

Paul,

Are those epoxy primers two-pack based?

Most two-pack paint systems here in the UK contain cyanates, which is very nasty stuff. Therefore these paints are sprayed using an air-fed mask.

They do provide a superior finish, but I think folk should be made aware of any dangers to their health.

Andy
'Why are you staring at an empty pond?'

Want to dive your boat in crystal clear water? Then you had better Dive-in- http://www.diveintomodelsubmarines.co.uk
User avatar
Sub culture
SubCommittee Member
 
Posts: 2865
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 6:55 am
Location: London, UK

Postby PaulC » Tue Jul 26, 2005 5:26 pm

Andy,

I'm talking about two part catalyzed polyamide epoxy primer. I use one with a 4:1 mix ratio. Any industrial grade will do. I happen to use one manufactured by Paragon Coatings - our company. However, you can get something similar in any industrial paint store. Automotive paint stores carry it as well, you'll just pay quite a bit more.

You're thinking of two part polyurethanes which use an isocyanate catalyst to cure the film. These are deep gloss, super-tough finish coats for automotive, boat and aircraft finishes. Great stuff, but extreme overkill for finishing models.

Every hobbiest should understand that ANY solvent based coating, be it hobby paint (containing mineral spirits or naptha), industrial/automotive products (containing xylene and ketones), or aerosol cans from the hardware store (filled with butane and other assorted solvents) should be handled responsibly and in compliance with the warning label and MSDS sheets. Even alkyd type water-based paints use ammonia as a vehicle -- nasty stuff. The tiny print on the can and the jargon-filled sheets (MSDS) they hand you with the receipt contains info important to your continued good health.

Single component solvent based paints dry by evaporation meaning the solvents in the coating, and the thinner added to reduce it to spray, leave the film into your atmosphere. Not to mention the atomized vapor created during the application itself. Not a healthy cloud to be breathing.

Masks with the proper filter elements will work fine for our applications -- even for polyurethanes. No need for an air asist hook-up. WARNING: the white, hospital type particle masks we use while sanding are useless in this application.

Proper handling of paint is just as important. Solvents are absorbed quite easily through the skin. Good latex gloves will work for our sporadic usage.

Ventilation is another thing to remember. Paint vapor is heavy and travels along the floor. Extinguish all sources of ignition such as pilot lights in garage water heaters. Don't close the door to the garage if it is cold/raining. Leave a space underneath for ventilation. A fan to force the air outside is better.

Remember: when in doubt, read the label. Nowadays the major paint manufacturers have all the technical and safety data on their product lines accessable via their websites.

Having said all this I do agree with Matt: California paint regs are whack. But that's another story.
Warm regards,

Paul Crozier
<><
User avatar
PaulC
SubCommittee Member
 
Posts: 1148
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2003 11:11 pm
Location: Houston, Texas

Postby PaulC » Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:36 pm

Just thinking: another benefit of hobby paints or aerosol cans over epoxy primer is if you ever need to redo your finish completely, you can take a solvent rag and literally wipe the topcoat off your boat -- without harming the primer.

Just make sure you sand the epoxy primer before reapplying your finish coat.
Warm regards,

Paul Crozier
<><
User avatar
PaulC
SubCommittee Member
 
Posts: 1148
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2003 11:11 pm
Location: Houston, Texas

Postby Sub culture » Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:39 pm

I must be honest and say that when it come to wearing masks and such, I'm a little naughty. However I do tend to paint in the fresh air, and I have an evacuator in the workshop.
'Why are you staring at an empty pond?'

Want to dive your boat in crystal clear water? Then you had better Dive-in- http://www.diveintomodelsubmarines.co.uk
User avatar
Sub culture
SubCommittee Member
 
Posts: 2865
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 6:55 am
Location: London, UK

Previous

Return to Modeling Tips and Tricks

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users