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San Francisco Submarine Regatta.Show of Hands - Who is coming and what are you bringing

Know of an upcoming modeling event?

Postby WL Upshaw/Scale Shipyard » Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:36 am

:p

I know there is another thread on this event, but lets have a show of hands of who is going to attend and what models are you bringing, this includes Vendors. ???
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Postby Skip Asay » Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:38 pm

I'm somewhat underwhelmed by the show of hands for this, the first West Coast submarine only SubRegatta. With all the complaining we see here about "why does SubRegatta have to be on the East Coast?", I would expect people on the West Coast to be happy about this. What's up? I'll be there. Will I be alone?

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Postby D Manley » Sun Sep 19, 2004 1:33 pm

I will be there with the oyshio the Lafayette and trenchant.
I don’t think this is the first all sub regatta up there, in Feb 99 I attended an all sub run/regatta in Vallejo. I do not remember any judging or much of a course, but I think somebody got a trophy and we all got to run our boats quit a bit!
:)

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Postby TMSmalley » Sun Sep 19, 2004 6:13 pm

I was planning on coming but the Mrs is coming out for her 30th high school reunion and doesn't want to be embarrassed by her sub-geeky husband. Have a great time you guys and take LOTs of photos.
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Postby Sailorman » Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:25 pm

Hi Y'all,

I will be there with U-57(type IIc), Trutta, Scorpion, and U96 (revell type VIIc).
I am riding up with Chris Caffee who will have 3 Subs and possibly a Flower Class Corvette (for us to shoot at) and my room mate Matt Smith will also ride with us bringing a Fletcher DD ( for us to chase track and generally torment).
We Know it is a "Subs Only" event, but isn't it more fun to have a surface craft or two out there, just to keep your edge?
See Ya There,
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Postby WL Upshaw/Scale Shipyard » Fri Oct 01, 2004 7:53 pm

Well as Skip said the show of hands was underwhelming and from the reports I got back from my friends from around here, the event was underwhelming as well.

9 Skippers with about 20 boats is what I see in the photos and what I was told....What Happened here????

I know that Tom Anderson worked hard to make this happen, and only he and Mark Jones showed up with boats from the Bay Area, the rest of the guys came up from So. Cal., and even Skip Asay flew in from Jersey.

Also in my book a regatta is where you actually have a course and some compitition and maybe even some awards, otherwise it is a fun run ( Sub Run )
This is not any kind of dig at Tom, I know he goes the extra miles to promote the Model Submarine Hobby.

You guys wanted a Subregatta somewhere else beside the Northeastern US and when one comes up for the US West Coast in a Prime Location.....you ignore it :(

Maybe it was not such a good idea to exclude the Military ship portion of this event ???

Maybe this event should go back to what is was started up as, a Military ship and Submarine Regatta.:cool:

Ok....Dive...Dive...Dive, deep submergence, rig for silent running...prepare for counter attack.... :D
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Postby Skip Asay » Sat Oct 02, 2004 5:00 pm

Well, the San Francisco SubRegatta is now history. As always, I had a ball! And again, Tom Anderson should be recognized and thanked for his efforts in securing the use of the fly casting ponds for the weekend. There’s more effort involved than most appreciate!

Sadly, the turnout was not as hoped for and no, I don’t believe that the lack of surface boats had an affect on the number of subs in attendance. People, yes. Subs, no. My initial reaction to the low attendance was one of disappoinment with so many of those SubCommittee members who have complained for so many years about having The SubRegatta on the East Coast - “Why can’t we have a SubRegatta closer to me?”. But I believe I now know the real reason for low attendance and I believe this reason is also an excellent example of why the printed SubCommittee Report is so incredibly important to this organization. In a word - advertising. The reality is, with less than 200 bona fide SubCommittee members registered on the Message Boards there are somewhere around 800 members who probably weren’t even aware of this event! While there’s always been an East Coast SubRegatta presence in the Report the same can’t be said for this year’s San Francisco event. And if the members don’t know about it, they can’t attend, can they?

The single biggest reason why advertising was so minimal this year is that Tom was not able to secure a permit for the site until after the SCR deadline. This will not be the case for next year so anybody who is serious about attending a West Coast SubCommittee SubRegatta next year, start planning NOW.

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Postby seaphoto » Sat Oct 02, 2004 9:33 pm

Hey Skip,

With all due respect, I used to promote the heck out of the military regatta - flyers in local hobby shops, posts on the Internet message boards, USENET, and so forth for many months ahead of time.. I would liaison with the combat guys to get their group out for the event too. It was the mix of disciplines within the hobby that made it such a great event IMO, and encouraged a lot of participation, not to mention a lot of new blood - people who never heard of any type of radio control modeling, and who were drawn by one of the three main components - and once there, perhaps even decided to get into R/C submarining.

By cutting the surface ship component to the regatta, I saw no point in doing that this year. Sorry, but as Jeff mentioned, the club is about promoting submarines only - fair enough there, but I have a hobby to promote myself, and devote my energy to where it is wanted and appreciated. At one time, I thought that the two hobbies were closely linked, as evidenced by having a joint regatta, but I see now that I was mistaken. In the future, I will be working with others on military regattas, perhaps in Southern California as there is an active core of modelers there. And yes, submarines will be welcome at these events, although they will have no connection with the Subcommittee. Look forward to annoucements early next year as plans firm up.

Cordially,

Kurt
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Postby Downscope » Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:17 pm

What a way to build goodwill - lock out everyone who isn't running ONLY a sub - including those who for long years past had organized and promoted this regatta as a joint surface/subsurface event. What a slap in the face to so many. I sure would like to know the idiot who engineered this fiasco. Not the one who secured the site, but the one who decided that only subs could participate. What a jerk. I had been planning to attend. Set time aside from work, got the wife involved, got all my stuff ready. Then I find out at the last minute no surface ships. Well, the h3ll with that nonsense. I run subs and ships, lots of guys do. But it looks like a a narrow minded one or two or a few decided to determine who could come and who could not - or rather what could be run and what could not. So, i figured they didn't need me. Apparently, I was not alone. In fact, I know I wasn't. Sounds like the whole thing ended up an absolute disaster - no courses to run, no competition, no participants. Oh, what fun. Take a lesson from the Admirals in St. Louis - invite and include everyone.

I am amazed that whichever government/county/city organization runs the fly casting ponds allowed this to happen - unless of course they didn't know about it. I had a private email that said it was pretty underhanded how this came about. From someone in the know. Well, far as I am concerned, beyond underhanded, it was simply stupid. No wonder the Subcommittee has concerns about membership and possibly folding - with the kind of negative publicity this garnered among so many other modelers I am amazed that anyone new, as well as many old, would want to be part of this type of mentality. And if you don't think there hasn't been VERY negative publicity about this, you just haven't been looking at the news groups or at other forums - big time negative - to the point where the Subcommittee has pretty much made itself unwelcome at other group's events. Absolutely unbelievable.
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Postby JWLaRue » Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:47 pm

Kevin, and others,

I can't but help to wonder why submarine-only events have never been an issue for the 13 years that we have held SubRegattas on the East Coast.

Seriously, why is it now different?

To borrow some of the tone of Kevin's posting, is this some kind of California thing? :p

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Postby seaphoto » Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:58 pm

Jeff,

It is all a matter of perspective I suppose. To you, this was a new West Coast event in it's first year. To me, this was an exisiting event, at the same location, and during the same time of year that 50% of the participants were excluded from, including some that worked very hard to ensure it's success for the previous four years.

Ask the sub guys who used to attend that regatta how the presence of the surface contingent diminished the enjoyment of the event. The sub guys that used to attend, that is - a lot of the people who called for an all sub regatta didn't bother showing up to this event, including the SC leadership.

What the Subcommittee did manage to do here is alienate a lot of people who used to enjoy a nice day running our models in a unique location - people that might one day have joined the group, and now, at best, want to have nothing to do with it.

So be it - as I said, we will have our own events in the future that will not be SC related so we can run our models, and those who run subs will be welcome to join with us.

Cordially,

Kurt
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Postby Skip Asay » Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:49 am

Kevin -

Perhaps it’s time to set the record straight so we can put this issue to rest.

In years past, the Military Ship Regatta (Festival?) was hosted by the Power Boat Squadron, a portion of the San Francisco Model Yacht Club. By courtesy of the Power Boat Squadron, Tom Anderson was able to tack on a submarine presence. This year, the Power Boat Squadron decided to put all their efforts into another regatta and NOT HAVE the Military Ship Regatta which then left this particular weekend open. So Tom decided to host a SubRegatta on his own. How is that “locking out” surface boats? The surface boat people THEMSELVES decided not to be there, not the other way around. And kudos to Tom for trying to answer all those requests (demands?) for a “SubRegatta in my back yard” that we’ve seen since the very first SubRegatta in Groton.

That attendance was less than hoped for can be attributed, for the most part, to the fact that Tom was not able to secure the permit for the use of the pond and therefore lock in a date until AFTER the SCR went to print which means that not very many SC members were even aware that there was a SubRegatta in San Francisco. This will not be the case next year. In terms of warm bodies in attendance, there were only a very few less sub guys there than what I have seen in the past.

Besides this message board, I watch the rcgroups and rcuniverse forums and I have yet to see ANYTHING regarding this event or negativity toward the SubCommittee. I’m sure there are other boards out there but where’s the “big time negative” you refer to?

Personally, I have to take issue with the TONE of your posts, more than anything else. You seem to enjoy flying off the handle without even a rudimentary attempt at gathering enough information to back up what you say. And I find your vehement personal attack on Tom Anderson to be offensive, to an extreme. It is misinformed, overly opinionated, demeaning posts such as yours which can cause people to shy away from the SubCommittee.

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Postby dietzer » Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:01 pm

Skip,

I believe Kevin is referring to the messages posted to Kurt's message board at http://www.warshipmodelsunderway.com/. Kevin's own messages there, in two different threads, have been extremely negative towards the SubCommittee. For those interested, the two threads in question are: the "Military Regatta '04" thread started on 8/30 and the "Any Military Regattas Planned for the West Coast" thread started on 10/4.

However, this all seems to have been the result of info posted there by Kurt on 9/8 in the first thread. In that post, Kurt stated the following:

"Two clubs were invovled in the hosting of this event, the Mare Island Chapter of the Subcommittee, and the San Francisco Model Yacht Club. The regatta was held at the flycasting ponds.

The San Francisco Model Yacht club was told that the flycasting ponds would no longer be available for model boat purposes, and they accepted that at face value. The subcommittee guys pursued it further, and got permission from the park department to use the venue. Because they did the legwork, they feel the event should be submarines only, and are prohibiting participation by surface vessels."

No mention was made in Kurt's post of the surface guys deciding to have their own Military regatta. This may well have been information that Kurt did not have.

I have a sneaking suspicion that "What we have here is a failure to communicate". Bad things have resulted from that lack of communication. I, for one, would like to rectify this situation ASAP.

As the new editor for the SCR, and thus a new member of the executive committee, I'd want to say I'm taking this matter very seriously. If the SubCommittee did something wrong here, we should try to make it right -- and quickly. But if the SubCommittee did nothing wrong, then the other people need to try and make it right -- and quickly. This is rapidly souring the good name of the SubCommittee throughout the surface ship modelling community, and it needs to be nipped in the bud right now.

Skip or Tom Anderson or Kurt Greiner: can any of you provide me with a contact for the Power Boat Squadron of the San Francisco Model Yacht Club? I am more than willing to call them personally and get their side all this. Also, I would be more than happy to personally call Skip, Tom, or Kurt and talk with them directly. Hopefully this is all just a big misunderstanding, and we can quickly set the record straight.

Regards,

Carl
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Postby Skip Asay » Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:14 pm

Carl -

I was not aware of Kurt's message board but now that I have looked there I see that Kevin was the most negative poster there, as well.

Someone else mentioned "the SC torpedoed it" (The Military Ship Regatta), but this just isn't fact. Again, the Power Boat Squadron, who has hosted an event there at the Fly Casting Ponds for several years (I've been to the last 4), decided not to have their event this year. How does that justify the remark "the SC torpedoed it"? Tom took advantage of the fact that the ponds were available that weekend and hosted a SubRegatta. What's the big deal? Why should the SubCommittee or any of its members suffer the slings and arrows? Haven't we been hearing complaints for years that the SubCommittee should have a Regatta "closer to me"? Tom stood up. No one else has (on the West Coast). Again, what's the big deal?

I have already emailed you my phone #. Feel free to call.

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Postby Dolphin » Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:32 am

Guess it's time to place my hand on the hot stove now too.

I think Tom Anderson did a good job. He took the initiative to make something happen in the short term for continuity for the long term West Coast model submarine outlook. Tom did and always has tried to accommodate and work with the different clubs and the SF park department. If it was a 'sub only' event, it was likely because it satisfied the requirements of the executive board officers of the SubCommittee. I have advocated more traveling by SC club officers to SC sanctioned events 'to the far off reaches of the empire' to enlighten and help to appreciate the different regions and their issues by those officers. However, even if they did travel who would have ever foreseen (even to the locals here in the SF area) this little inane issue.

The SF fly casting ponds offer a serene and enjoyable regatta site, and offers clear water which Speckles Lake cannot offer. Spreckles is a very beautiful site too...built in 1898 specifically for model boaters.....seems the origin and history of Spreckles Lake was also as a proving pond for models of full size sailing yachts for the San Francisco Yacht Club. The San Francisco Model Yacht Club history precedes the famous model Yacht Club in New York's central Park by just a few years. By contrast, the very near by clear water of the fly Casting ponds uniquely offers enjoyment for spectators and safety for the sub skippers. Hence why the Fly Casting ponds are so desirable as a regatta site.

Frankly, I don't understand what the beef is about. Nuff said. Lets learn to comunicate again, and look forward to next year, if there is a next year. Either way, I am running subs, with you or alone.

Steve Reichmuth




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