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Postby Don Prince » Wed Mar 26, 2003 1:58 pm

I have been a Subcommittee member for a few years now and plan on staying a member. One thing that may enhance the membership is to make the past publications available to all members. This information is especially needed by new members who may be overwhelmed by this new hobby. I know I certainly was in this category. I don't know how much money is made by selling back issues. However, I don't believe it's a great deal of money. I would suggest that you consider providing ALL the back issues and new issues of the journal on a CD ROM. You could even offer us a choice of the magazine or the CD ROM, or both. Why Not???
"A man's got to know his limitations"
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Postby JWLaRue » Wed Mar 26, 2003 4:33 pm

Don,

We are in the process of getting all of the back issues into PDF format and onto CDrom. These will be made available to members in the same way that we sell the (paper) back issues today. This will take some time since, like everything else that this organization does, it is being done by members who have graciously volunteered their time.

This should not be 'news' to members. We publically announced that we would be doing this last year.

-hope this helps,

Jeff

p.s. and yes, the organization does take in a good amount of operating revenue through the sales of back issues.
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Postby Don Prince » Mon Mar 31, 2003 11:46 am

Hi Jeff,

I completely understand what you are saying and where you are coming from.... However, step into the shoes of a new member who wants to build his first boat. The information is there, but I don't know which edition and in what detail. My example, I purchased the Engel Dive System $450.00 plus for my OTW VIIc U-Boat (my cost $1,187.00). After I received the Dive System, I discovered that I didn't account for the piston shaft that extends when the tank is filled. Remember your comment to me, "It's the old run-out shaft problem!" That was a very expensive mistake on my part... Are there previous articles that cover the Engel Piston Dive system and the WTC space requirements? I Don't Know, perhaps not? My point is; NEW members are isolated by design of The Subcommittee web based association. If the information is not available at a reasonable cost to the individual, then the growth factor will be limited to the very few, and you will loose the new person who is left to fend for himself. Think about IT!

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Don_
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Postby TMSmalley » Mon Mar 31, 2003 2:15 pm

SCR INDEX
Hi Don - a belated welcome to the SubCommittee. Remembering back a few years to being the new guy it really did seem a rather daunting hobby to submerge :D myself into, but the love of subs and hounding a bunch of other SubMoonies, got me over the worst of the hurdles. But, sometimes I still buy the wrong battery or speed controller or gear reducer etc. Just part of the fun I guess. (Granted that an Engle tank is a bit more "spendy" than most ESCs - Ouch!)

Regarding your very good comments -
There are questions that have not been answered in the SCR (we are working on that!) that a half a dozen guys in the club will know the answer to right off the bat.

Sometimes a question asked on RC Modeller message board such as I am considering installing an Engle tank in my new OTW kit - anything I should watch out for? is helpful. There are lots of "lurkers" who will answer you via email, who are too "shy" to post.

Also, maybe the OTW kit is new enough that nobody has run into the problem you had. A quick proactive check with Bob Dimmack at OTW might have saved you some grief too. Being in the UK, he might have already seen a couple of euro-guys get into trouble with that problem.

As Managing Editor Jeff has pointed out, the SCR is a very labor intensive publication - especially compared to the size of our organization. There are few 1,000 member hobby clubs whose newsletters could stand favorably next to ours.

At this year's U.S. Navy SubVets Convention - an organization of just over ten thousand members - one of the USSVI convention organizers said he wished their publication, The American Submariner was half as good as ours. By the way, he has now joined the SubCommittee after seeing our pool demo!

One of the recurring requests we have for the SCR is a comprehensive and useful index. Valiant attempts have been made in the past, and the list of articles helps, but when all you see is "Smoke on the Horizon" without an indication of what that particular Smoke covers, it's not as helpful as it could be. Then again, how many magazines offer that sort of an index - either for profit or non?

It would take several volunteers doing one heck of a lot of work to go through 52 issues and catalog every single item mentioned in some sort of a useful format. With database technology, it could be made searchable on this website, so you would have some idea which issues mentioned the Engle system and which back issue or CD to buy. Of course then the problem is that maybe your particular run-out question is answered in that article - and maybe it isn't...

Anyway, from what I understand, the phones in the palacial SCR Publishing Empire Headquarters :;): aren't ringing off the hook with people begging to pitch in.

Tim Smalley
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SC#1735




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Postby JWLaRue » Mon Mar 31, 2003 2:35 pm

To pick up on a couple of things that Tim mentioned....

We are working on a comprehensive SCR index that we believe will provide the kind of information to allow members (new and old) the ability to find the information that they are looking for....assuming that it was actually published in the SCR! So far we have approximately half the issues indexed. I could use someone versed in writing Microsoft Access report scripts....and takers?

This indirectly answers your question about the affordability of buying back issues. By that I mean that if we provide a means to locate those specific issues needed, then the cost is effectively reduced since it would no longer be necessary to buy an entire set of back issues.

On the question of volunteers. We periodically make public calls for volunteers. Most times the call goes unheeed. This most recent time I received replies from two members to assist with the raw tect editing for articles in the SCR. (Many thanks!) This is extremely useful to me, but I need to stress the point that text editing is only a small part of all the work that goes into producing the SCR. For example, most of the photos that we receive require processing through something like Photoshop. Eventually, all articles need to be layed-up in PageMaker. Both of these skills are still very much needed!! Any takers?

-Jeff
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Postby Don Prince » Mon Mar 31, 2003 6:15 pm

Hi Jeff & Tim,

Thanks for the quick response to my questions... I don't mean to be dropping too many depth charges in the calm Seas. I don't want to do that to fellow Subcommittee members. Please accept my apology. I work in a world wide support organization environment, and I can do a data base search and usually find the information I need at work. I would like to get a CD with ALL the previous 52 publications and a new CD once a year with the latest Pubs when I renew my menbership. I think this would be a yearly subscription that some members would take advantage of, especially us beginners. That way I could do a search on the CD and easily find the information. Would this type of membership be a possibility?

Regards,
Don_
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Postby Rockpile » Mon Mar 31, 2003 8:00 pm

Hi Don,
I too got the 750 ml dive system for my OTW type VII. I was able to put the two Pistons end to end , both piston shafts faceing in. I used a 4" cylinder for the electronics and diveing system. The motor set up I used is from Ships & Things, the one Al uses for the U-47. I placed the diveing pistons at each end of the cylinder . The forwar cylinder is 3/4" below center and the aft cylinder is 3/4 " above center. This allowes the shafts to pass over each other. All the electronics are between the diveing cylinders.
If you would like I will send you som pictures of the setup.

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Postby Don Prince » Mon Mar 31, 2003 8:52 pm

Hi Jack,

Sure!!! I would like to use my Engel Dive system. I have a few limitations and lack a lot of expertise. Mine are the 1.65 liter dual 825 ML piston tanks. They will require a slightly longer WTC. In attition, I built the OTW Type VIIc hull so the brass deck and tower can be removed from the upper deck lip. The five brass plate sections are secured by 26 brass counter sunk screws which screw into brass cabinet inserts fiberglassed into the hull lip. The hull lip is rigid, not flexible, so I am not able to pry it apart to accept the OTW 4.25 WTC similar to what Jeffrey does with his U-Boat. I believe I could use a 3.75 inch OD WTC, Possibly a 4.00 OD one (Maby?). I would like to stay with a 3.75 OD if possible.

It testing the hull before I purchased the engel dive system, I used a 36" long 3.5" plastic drain pipe to assure I could slide the WTC into the hull with a little room to spare. That's why I'm not too sure about a 4" WTC Diameter.

I've talked with several different people and then I had concerns about positive internal pressure on the seals in a 3.75" WTC. I guess I need to communicate with someone like yourself who definitely has the experience. Possibly, I have backed myself into a corner with my methoud the building the OTW U-Boat. However, I spent well over a year building the hull and the the brass deck. It's not perfect, but I think I like the way it turned out. Email me anything you wish, and in return I will send you some photos of my U-Boat.

My email address:
don.prince@ncr.com

Regards,
Don_
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Postby Bob the Builder » Mon Mar 31, 2003 11:00 pm

Jeff,


I'm very familiar with Photoshop if you're still looking for someone to edit submitted photos for the SCR.

Just let me know what you need.


:D
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Postby JWLaRue » Tue Apr 01, 2003 12:57 pm

Don said:

>>> I don't mean to be dropping too many depth charges in the calm Seas.

Not to worry, questions such as you are asking are always welcomed and encouraged.

>>> I would like to get a CD with ALL the previous 52 publications and a new CD once a year with the latest Pubs when I renew my menbership.

It looks like we will be able to a single year (4 issues on one CDrom. Our plan, once we have them ready to go is to make back issues on CDrom the *preferred* distribution vs. paper copies by simply making the paper copies a bit more expensive.

Can you help me to understand more about the idea of a membership renewal tied to a once-a-year CDrom? Are you suggesting paying for the membership year and then not getting any of the 4 issues of the SCR until all 4 have been produced? Or possibly getting the 4 printed issues followed by an end-of-the-year CDrom of those 4 issues? Or....something else perhaps?

>>> That way I could do a search on the CD and easily find the information.

The CDrom will contain the issues of the SCR in PDF format, which doesn't allow for easy searching of the material. What we could consider doing is to add to the CDrom the Access database that is the SCR Index. That would allow searching....

-hope this helps. I know that these kinds of questions definitely help me!

Jeff
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Postby JWLaRue » Tue Apr 01, 2003 12:58 pm

Bob said:

>>> I'm very familiar with Photoshop if you're still looking for someone to edit submitted photos for the SCR.

...and Jeff sez: Bob, you've got mail! :D

-many thanks,

Jeff
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Postby Don Prince » Wed Apr 02, 2003 3:02 pm

I believe the CD ROM is the way to Go.... But, I do like getting the latest printed SCR.

1. Purchase the CD with all the older SCRs
2. At Renewal: get the CD ROM along with the new printed SCR, the next three would be only the printed SCR

I don't believe there is a space problem on a CD ROM, so all the previous SCR should fit and each year add the last years SCR.

The index will be of great value. However, I have a search utility that will open and text search PDFs. The utility cost is about $30.00.

I guess that eventually The Subcommittee may go to CD ROM only.... That would probably save tons of money verses the printed SCR.

Regards,
Don_
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Postby JWLaRue » Wed Apr 02, 2003 6:47 pm

Don,

Sorry...but the PDFs that I have been creating as the basis for the printing of the SCR are fairly huge. At best we will only get a year's worth on a CDrom.

It might be possible to get some space savings by doing some post-processing to reduce the resolution of the PDFs, but we'd need to discuss the value of doing this.

-Jeff
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Postby Bob the Builder » Thu Apr 03, 2003 12:13 pm

Just thought I'd throw in my two cents worth (1.36 cents US by todays exchange rate)...

I, for one, am really happy that the backissues will be available in .pdf. In today's world paper media seems pretty archaic.

Can anyone tell me what ALL of the backissues of the SCR would cost me on CD and when they will be available?

I have found them to be an invaluable asset, but as I only joined a little while ago, my collection is limited to the last 7 issues or so. I'm sure that there is tons of valuable info just waiting for me to discover....
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Postby Bob the Builder » Thu Apr 03, 2003 12:17 pm

I'm not familiar at all with Microsoft Access, but if there's anything else that I can help out with to get things rolling, just let me know.



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