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Revell 1/72 Gato!!!

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Postby chips » Sun Oct 09, 2005 10:08 am

[/quote]If Revell chooses to duplicate (or at least research) Cobia in their efforts simply because of geographic conveniece, so be it. Very understandable. But may I suggest the Cod (SS-224) in Cleveland as an alternative? [quote]

Revell's office is in Northbrook,Il. COBIA is in Manitowoc, WI, 147 miles north with an average drive time of 2 hrs 25 min. SILVERSIDES is in Muskegon, MI, 213 mile from Northbrook; about a 4.5 hour drive. COD is 370 miles from Northbrook, about a 6 hr drive.
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Postby JefftyToo » Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:42 pm

Sorry, Chips, guess I wasn't very clear. What I meant was a suggestion for Revell to forego the understandable geographic convenience in the interest of research/reproduction accuracy; that is, choosing Cod as a subject despite the distance or expense BECAUSE of her less-altered state. Silversides would indeed be another wonderful choice, but having visited that boat twice myself, I KNOW she's been visibly altered.

I must say I do concur strongly with what others have said above: whether intentionally produced as a kit with limber holes, anchor wells, etc. which can be modeled to represent different versions of the various shipyard configurations, or as one and only one very specific boat in a very specific-in-time representation, Revell MUST produce this kit to be EXTREMELY ACCURATE or they will undoubtedly, in large part anyway, risk losing this particular target audience (the widespread sub devotees of the S.C.) because we are in fact the customers which will (mostly) know better. In fact, I'd think they'd realize quickly that we are the EXACT audience INTERESTED in spending big bucks for a big kit, and they would actually WANT to cater to our group-stated pre-production concerns. Again, as was said earlier, this looks to be a kit NOT for the adolescent market or the casual modeler. Working in advertising as I do, I can tell you there's a name for the approach Revell should be taking in developing this project, and it's something not unfamiliar to any of you: it's called Market Research.

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Postby Steve Nuttall » Sun Oct 09, 2005 4:14 pm

All i need is good info on both scopes and guns; the propshafts maybe would need to be replaced also
I'd more than likely continue with the great sales support for you guys provided by Model by Mickster; I'll supply him instead of direct

I feel the mold will be split down the centerline like the type7; the other possiblity would be like the Snowberry with 2 joints and while this saves on the packaging size; just plain ugly once built

As far as my accuracy for the newparts; here's a shot of my new High resolution lathe which will be onstream before the years end; this machine is on an order of 5 times more accurate than the old machine in use now; the machine is twice as tall; and can make parts up to 14" long; is it heavy? well i can't lift it anymore; those side supports are 3/4" steel; base is 1" thick; to give an idea of scale; thats a 4" diameter 6 jaw chuck
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Postby Akula971 » Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:18 am

Nice kit! how much does that sort of lathe cost? can it be computer controlled?
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Postby Desert Boat » Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:25 am

Do y'all remember when Matchbox/Airfix or whatever came out with the Flower Class Corvettes? The hull came in 4 pieces and because of the plating, you could match the hull really nice. I hope the new Fleet Boat isn't that way! :(
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Postby Steve Nuttall » Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:48 am

it is computer controled; thats why there are "no" handwheels

Cost; I'm building this from scratch same as all my machines; rough price $30,000 with computer and drive system
resolution is 0.0000209" repeatablity of 0.0001"
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Postby ThorDesign » Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:30 pm

Steve,

I am puzzled. How does one measure 0.0000209"? I deal a lot with CNC machining in the Defense industry. In all of my years of engineering I have never seen a device capable of measuring such a tolerance other than lightwaves bounced off of the mirrors we use to focus tactical targeting lasers. .0005" is the accepted maximum achievable resolution on all of Lockheed Martin's drives. I know tighter tolerances are often claimed, but I have never seen them actually achieved let alone measured.
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Postby Stoene » Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:01 pm

He probrably takes the steps per revolution of the motor, plus the gear reduction (I saw 2 on the long axis) screw thread count times all three axis to get an overall estimate, I would presume. I bet there is some play in the system (some for each belt used, acme or ball screw backlash, tooltip deflection) that makes such fine increments overkill thats why he mentions a repeatability of 1/1000 of an inch. However, a very fine piece of equipment. Very Nice!
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Postby Mkeatingss » Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:09 pm

Steve's numbers don't seem unreasonable, to me.
When I retired, in 98, Fanuc, of Japan, was guaranteeing repeatability within .0001" (1/10000), and the high end boys were looking to .00001" (100/1000000). I'm surprised to hear that the government isn't ashing for even tighter standards, by now.
All in all, for a home brew, it's a very impressive piece of equipment. I know of few machine shops, that wouldn't be proud to have that thing out in the shop.
I'm very impressed, Steve. I wouldn't have believed, that a tool of that precision, could be produce by anyone other than a machine tool manufacture. I envy you, your talent and expertise.
Well done, now I know how you make those little bitty, tinnie-tiny, exquisite parts.

This reminded me of something, else.
I have all sorts of drawings and pictures of diesel boats. Including, but not limited to, the tech manual on the Type 8 (navigation) periscope.
If anyone needs anything, info, drawings or pictures, you can ask here, or Email me directly. I'll be happy to share anything I have with anybody that needs it. Most of it is on Balao and Tench class boats, but I do have some Gato info.

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Postby Steve Nuttall » Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:36 pm

ThorDesign wrote:Steve,

I am puzzled. How does one measure 0.0000209"? I deal a lot with CNC machining in the Defense industry. In all of my years of engineering I have never seen a device capable of measuring such a tolerance other than lightwaves bounced off of the mirrors we use to focus tactical targeting lasers. .0005" is the accepted maximum achievable resolution on all of Lockheed Martin's drives. I know tighter tolerances are often claimed, but I have never seen them actually achieved let alone measured.

I'm not measuring to that; however I did make the spindle today and made the bearing diameters to just 0.0001 below nominal size; a good0-1 mic will do 0.0001 easy the lathe is set-up for a 0.0001" move per step; 200 steps per rev; and as pointed out there are reductions on both ball screws; 6-1 on X and 7.5-1 on Z
The compumotor drives are set at 1000 steps; hence the 0.0001 is divided by 5
What can happen is if the drives lose power; the next full step is moved too once power is re-applied; so while the lathe can step 0.00002 the repeatablity I claim as 0.0001
My machine control softwre is what is set for the 0.0000209" per step
I have used the manual stepping in this software to chk the backlash; the X has none because I have 2 nuts opposed to each other in the same screw; and I preloaded them
The Z axis is a THK Ball screw; I thought it wouldhave some measurable backlash; but if any it's 0.0001 at most; I think it is a preloaded ballscrew; which are avail; i got this off one eBay
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Postby Walt » Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:34 pm

I think it's great that someone is doing a new kit of an American Fleet Boat. These boats have been overlooked for a long time. A mid series Balao would be fine. Let the aftermarket guys do the Conning tower/sail and different bows and gun updates and conversions. I served on and qualified on the USS Bang SS 385 and I have converted both the ancient Revell kit and a few YankeeModelworks kits to represent her original, postwar, and late Guppy guises. I can't wait for a modern large scale kit. As for sales.. I'll hazard a guess that it will out sell the ty Vllc 10 to 1. Oh and the 385 had no grates on her ballast flood ports... I think the nukes were the only Boats to have them. I think it was the noise made at higher speeds that required the grates to buffet the noise made by open holes. Smoke boats did not have to worry about "high speeds" LOL
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Postby U812 » Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:30 am

With all the information and knowledge here one would think, why don't you guys just scratch one? It's not that hard. If one of you does such a project the scratch builder will hear all your wants and desires in a boat.

And you won't have to wait a year for something that might not come out anyway.

It has taken me about 2 months so far to make the type 17 at 1/35th scale. I start making kits to sell this week.

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Postby Albion » Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:56 am

Scale shipyard website shows 1/96 and 1/72 hulls aready available.
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Postby U812 » Tue Oct 11, 2005 2:00 am

Yep.

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Postby WL Upshaw/Scale Shipyard » Tue Oct 11, 2005 2:37 am

Actually
I have 2 of the 1:72 scale boats in stock but no 1:96 right now
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