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Type VIIb sail - Nautilus models: correct?

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Postby Gerwalk » Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:56 pm

I was looking at Nautilus Models Type VIIb set and asked to myself: How wrong is Revell's type VIIb sail for representing the U-99? Is Nautilus Models set any good for making a U-99 model?
funny thing is that some plans I have show the Revell sail style, not the Nautilus Models one. Which is correct?
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Postby Captain Nemo12 » Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:59 pm

Well, I was asking myself the same question. Do you mean the the stern of the conning tower where it slopes in instead of outward? On the type VIIC the conning tower was different than that of the type VIIB.

Image

You can see the difference between these types on the enlarged conning tower picture


Image


The U-48, type VIIb, had this kind of tower, so I assume the U-99 must've had the same too.

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Postby Gerwalk » Thu Mar 10, 2005 8:41 pm

Yes, the aft part of the sail. I've seen pics and plans of type VIIb with a...let's call it slash (/)aft sail part and also with a backslash aft sail part (\) (with aft sail part I mean the support of the wintergarten

The Revell type VIIb model has a ( / ) aft sail part but the Nautilus model has the opossite.
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Postby Captain Nemo12 » Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:00 pm

So does the Robbe U-47, I've seen pictures of the tower with the (\) mod and the small wintergarden railings (no anti-aircraft gun). I'm not sure but I think the back slash (\) tower is a late-war type. In building the U-52, I've come across people who told me about the emblem, and in turn they mentioned that it had a late tower mod, I'm still sticking with the original type VIIB tower (/), there must be some difference between the two types (VIIb/c), aside from the size, speed of the boats, the tower could also be one factor.
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Postby JWLaRue » Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:08 pm

If memory serves......

The U-99 retained the undercut beneath the Wintergarten. However unlike the as-built Type VIIB U-boats, the U-99 had the circular-shaped Wintergarten platform (vs. the smaller sort of triangular shaped one)

Don't forget to add the signature pair of real horseshoes, one to each side of the conning tower that was Kretchmer's 'wappen'!

-Jeff
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Postby Jess » Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:05 am

I'm almost finished with the Revell 1/125 kit. I built it withe Nautilus resin CT with photoetch. Evidently, the Nautilus upgrade kit is OOP and is very tough to track down. My client was able to find 3. If you can find one, it's definitly worth having. The resin CT is much better than the Revell's.
You may have to do some research on your boat. Some VIIBs had the VIIA style CTs. I believe, but I'm not positive, that the U-47 had both. I've seen it represented with both styles anyway.

My complaint with this kit is that either the CT is too big or the width of the upper deck is too small. Because the upper deck railings are butting right up against the CT. There should be plenty of space for someone to walk around.

Here's a link to see it:
http://homepage.mac.com/jess13/PhotoAlbum45.html

Take Care,

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Postby Gerwalk » Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:03 pm

Thanks for the answers!
Jess: excellent model! Thanks for the pics.
I don't understand which kit are you referring to (Nautilus models or Revell?) when you said: "My complaint with this kit"

Jeff: what do you mean as "the undercut beneath the Wintergarten?

One of the problems I have is that I can't find any good picture showing the CT of the U-99.

Maybe I should model another boat...
Are any option decals for this model out there?
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Postby JWLaRue » Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:34 pm

Yup, the U-47 had both styles of Wintergartens.

By "undercut" I was trying to say that the bottom aft end of the conning tower was forward of the stern edge of the Wintergarten.....as in the Wintergarten overhangs the conning tower structure.

-Jeff

p.s. I have a few photos of the U-99 tower....I'd just need to figure out which book(s) they're in!
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Postby Gerwalk » Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:41 pm

Thanks for clarifying.
I've just ordered a resin CT from Nautilus models (they have the last one in AAA models) They still have the photoetched parts but I prefer to make those details from scratch (don't like flat surfaces for representing wires or rods)
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Postby Captain Nemo12 » Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:11 pm

I found this pic in one of my books, here is several U-boats in drydock. The interesting thing about this picture is the numbers, you can see from the conning towers that the boats looks like type IIs. But are the numbers painted to represent the actual boat name? For example, you can see the boats, 46, 47, 52 and 51, but are they the actual U-46, U-47, U-52, or the U-51? The numbers could also something else I'm sure.

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Postby JWLaRue » Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:01 pm

Those are four of the Type VIIB U-boats during the pre-war period. It was common practice to paint the boat number in large numerals on the sides of the conning tower. Also note the cast (and painted) German eagle on the upper forward edge of the tower as well.

These boats show the original or "as-built" form of the conning tower for the VIIB series of boats.

Note the net cutters on the bow as well. Shortly after the outbreak of hostilities, these were removed....along with the removal of the painted tower numbers (and eagles).

-Jeff
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Postby AtomicTuna » Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:56 pm

Guys,
I am a bit curious. The Nautilus kit still based on Revell CT, even with significant improovments.
I still could not figure out if U99 had air intakers on bought sides of CT? The pictures of VIIB (not U99) shows a bit different form and size of air intakers but on bougth sides of CT.
Any advice?

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Postby JWLaRue » Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:22 pm

If memory serves.....

The engine air intakes for the "as-built" Type VIIB U-boats were located beneath the deck of the Wintergarten and pulled air in through the holes in the deck gratings.

(Technically, the aft portion of the decks of these conning towers weren't called Wintergartens until the larger, circular platform design was used.....but I digress....)

Once the boats began to be used in rougher waters beyond the immediate German home waters, it was decided that the air intakes needed to be raised higher so as to minimize the amount of water being ingested. This resulted in a series of different intake designs that were applied to the VIIB's and no real 'standard' until the VIIC's were ordered (and built).

Some VIIB's had one intake (either side) and some had two and then some had a central intake installed behind the aft periscope shear. And they didn't necessarily look the same from boat to boat.

I think the U-99 had an intake on the starboard side only, but I'd really want to find a photo to be sure. (This is the "if memory serves part!)

-Jeff
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Postby Captain Nemo12 » Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:34 pm

JWLaRue wrote:Those are four of the Type VIIB U-boats during the pre-war period. It was common practice to paint the boat number in large numerals on the sides of the conning tower. Also note the cast (and painted) German eagle on the upper forward edge of the tower as well.

These boats show the original or "as-built" form of the conning tower for the VIIB series of boats.

Note the net cutters on the bow as well. Shortly after the outbreak of hostilities, these were removed....along with the removal of the painted tower numbers (and eagles).

-Jeff

Thanks Jeff, this clears up the idea bit! :) I had some idea that the CT on those boats were pre-war, on the U-35's webpage, it showed the boat with a CT similar to the ones on the photo, but of course, this was a different type. Yes, I don't think the space behind the tower was called the wintergarden, the wintergarden was later developped when anti-aircraft weapons were installed on the boats, VIIC/41s for example.
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Postby JWLaRue » Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:57 pm

Well.....the (circular) Wintergarten was developed when the stern deck gun was moved to the conning tower. This to reduce the time it would take the gun crew to scramble to safety in the event of an emergency dive. This was done prior to the VIIC/41 variant.

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