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Deep Dive

Place for general submarine conversation

Postby AdriaticSea » Tue Jul 08, 2003 9:10 am

Hello everyone,

I have a question for you guys: what is the max depth you ever reached with a model submarine? I know what are all the limitations for the model's deep...poor visibility...signal losing...just want to know who's the "bravest" and most daring sub-driver around here!! :D :D :D
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Postby FX Models » Tue Jul 08, 2003 1:16 pm

Well it isnt much really but I took my type VII to the bottom of a clear spring fed pond and set it on the bottom, had lunch and brought it back just fine. Depth was around 11 feet or so...

Beyond that, I had routinely run the ALVIN at a depth of 10-15 feet for approximately 10-12 hours at a time with some breaks over a few days. That was a work project though for a client.

We are currently making a system for another client that will be happy in 15-25 foot depths where it will be operating. Thats a little more industrial though.

Hope that adds to the database!

Marc
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Postby ThierryC » Tue Jul 08, 2003 4:24 pm

I routinelly park my Typhoon at the bottom of a 10' deep pond and leave it there while I eat or do something else. So far never had a drop of water in it.
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Postby AdriaticSea » Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:24 am

Hello Marc and Thierry,

thanks for the response! Keep on posting your depth records!
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Postby bo@ti » Wed Jul 09, 2003 12:12 pm

With my U-25 (krick) i was 3mtr, for about 5minutes or so. the #### thing got stuck. When i ran the boat in reverse after 5 min it had a big dent in the front :D
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Postby FX Models » Sun Jul 13, 2003 8:08 pm

Oh wait theres more!

I ran the old MRC Gato kit at 22 feet for 72 hours! Yeah, it was my cousin's boat (Jerry Pavano) and I had JUST finished refitting it for him when HE (thats right HE!) failed to seal the lid tightly and when I took it out in the local sub-pond, it dove... and kept right on going.

Ok truth be known... I was double checking him and did not find fault with his hatch lock down. So really it is my fault. Anyway, it was September or October, the water was fairly chilly and I could not get in with my gear deeper than waist without being hypothermed. So we called a diver, and he retrieved it, after 4.5 hours of searching! Diver had an 'award' for me when he brought it to shore... A nice pirate flag , skull and crossbones. Nice guy. heehee.

Jerry was very happy to see it come back and we eventually removed the gear and built it into a static model for a govt client.

But STILL. 72 hours, 22 feet. Whats that? Was it full of water? Oh... yeah, so? I did not see anywhere that the stipulation 'high and dry' was being applied to the contents after a deep dive!

so... WE WIN!~ HA !

=8)
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Postby AdriaticSea » Mon Jul 14, 2003 4:23 am

Hello Marc,

very fun post, but what a chilly and scary experience! You've been lucky to find a so kind diver...I'm a certified scuba diver and cold water is really a bad thing (if you don't have a nice warm dry-suit, of course :D :D )
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Postby FX Models » Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:14 pm

Geez Mauro I keep remembering more times now...

I have my old Type VII UBoat from 32nd Parallel and I was running that in a 15 foot deep pond and I was going through fairly clear water. There was a famous gully through middle of this pond, kind of reminiscent of Red Route One from Hunt For Red October fame. I miscalculated a turn and firmly wedged the boat across the opposing slopes of the gully. Subsequent attempts to power out kept raising absolutely BLACK mud clouds... which filtered down through the holes in the top deck, little by little until... you guessed it...once I dislodged it, there wasnt enough ballast tank to bring it back... So I had to circle at full speed, full up planes to get it to break the surface at which point I beached it. Upon opening it, the boat was loaded in all of its free flood spaces with at least 5 pounds of black fine silt. A half hour later and some cleaning, and it was back in the water and back into the gully to do it right!

That whole incident took place in a fairly deep (approx 11-13 feet) area of the pond. The water was very clean and you could easily see all the way to the bottom. Well, until I muddied it up that is.

hee hee...

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Postby AdriaticSea » Tue Jul 15, 2003 4:36 am

Hello Marc,

many thanks for sharing with us your experiences! I guess a Typhoon model would have been more appropriate!
I also have a small, crystal water pond where I'll run my absolutely excellent ThorDesign Permit...be ware of those undetected rocks! Unless you have an active sonar and video camera of course :D :D :D
5 pounds of silt...WOW!
Keep posting!
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Postby Carcharadon » Sat Jul 26, 2003 7:56 am

I have made several Jules Verne type subs. To test them I take them out to a local recreation area which has a large man-made pond. Apparently in the past this was a borough pit that must have filled with water so they made it a recreation area. I would guess that it is 40 to 60 acres. On one occasion I lost my 7 ft. sub about 100 -- 120 ft. offshore. I had the sense to lineup some land reference points since I was standing in the water for future reference. I swam out to the last surface location of the sub and dove down. As a former professional diver I have a fairly good sense of depth. I would estimate the depth at this distance from shore to be 20 ft. I could only spend a few seconds groping on the bottom looking for the sub. Visibility was about a foot. I was surprised to find that the bottom was relatively unencumbered with debris. It was a fairly smooth sand silt mixture on a gradual slope. Knowing this I thought it would be possible to snag the submarine with a combination of three fishing lures and a heavy lead weight. I went home to get my fishing rod with my specialized grappling device. Lining up on my reference points in waist deep water I was able to eventually snag the sub and retrieve it. It was at that point that I decided to make an emergency retrieval ascent system. At first this was simply a control valve dumping gas into the hull. Later I added a bladder and could use the emergency ascent system as a functional component of the dynamic diving system. To test this system I would send the sub out 100 to 150 ft. and sink it purposely. Knowing that it was sitting on the bottom in about 20-25 ft. I was then able to make it vertically rise to the surface.

I'm currently working on a 4 ft. version of the submarine. Yesterday (7/25) I sent it out underwater starting from shore to at least 150 ft. offshore underwater. I have no idea how deep it was. I got the impression that it would've gone clear across the lake underwater. It does not have an emergency ascent system but it is slightly positive buoyant. To make it surface you simply take your hands off the controls.

It would be nice if there were a type of depth gauge that could be attached to the hull recording the deepest depth. It could then be reset to zero for the next run. I know there are diving computers that can do this but they're expensive and bulky. I can envision a small solid-state device with a digital readout working on piezoelectric effect with an automatic hold feature for the largest reading, that is the deepest depth. Just wondering if anyone knows of such a device or if maybe some of the electronics wizards here could come up with the circuit.




Edited By Carcharadon on 1059220802
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Postby AdriaticSea » Sat Jul 26, 2003 9:24 am

Hi Charcharadon,

your post is very interesting! The idea of putting a depth meter device into a RC sub is also very intriguing...it would be very nice being able to read the depth on the radio!
Maybe one of the SC's electronics guys has the solution...let's wait!
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Postby ThierryC » Sat Jul 26, 2003 1:25 pm

Carcharadon you could use an analog diver depth gauge. They are pretty cheap but a bit bulky. They have 2 needles: one needle shows the current depth and the other needle is beeing pushed by the depth needle but doesn't a spring return, thus it stays at the maximum depth the diver went to.
Something like that could be easily fitted in a submarine.
The best ones would be of the type that uses oil to move the needle and not of the spring loaded ones as the oil ones are more precise for depth up to 5meters which is the depth range where our subs cruse.
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Postby Carcharadon » Sat Jul 26, 2003 2:10 pm

Thierry I've never seen one with the second needle but that could work.
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Postby AdriaticSea » Sat Jul 26, 2003 2:28 pm

Hi all,

Thierry, what an idea! I'm wondering why I didn't think to it first...because I'm an Open Water Scuba Diver!! :)
I can fully confirm what Thierry said...there are a lot of analogic depth gauges, all with the second needle...and they're relatively cheap! It's a great idea, mainly for the Big Subs (I'm working on a 1/96 ThorDesign Permit...my first!)
Great Tip!
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Postby raalst » Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:26 pm

Hi all,

I hit on the idea of having the sub reporting back a while ago
too.
I found that RC cars can be bought really cheap these
days. you can dismantle it, take the sending electronics and
put them in the sub. you keep the receiver on shore.
These things work at 27 Mhz, so the requirement is to
have another frequency for the "old" R/C you have.

next you have to " code" the measured data onto
this sender, e.g. with a simple Voltage-to-Frequency
convertor.
Forrest Mims III has several examples of these,
based on the 555 timer chip. simple stuff (once you know..)
Of course, you could code morse or hook up
microcontrollers as well. do not expect high
bandwidth, though...




NB ! i had the thing working on land, but have not yet built
it in a sub.
maybe somebody beats me to it, otherwise I'll let you know
if it works (at all)
Regards,

Ronald van Aalst

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