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Ming class 361 & news on Chinese Type 093/09 III

Place for general submarine conversation

Postby Dolphin » Fri May 02, 2003 11:06 pm

CNN is often blocked by some nations. Pasted here is the CNN Ming submarine 361 article at this address to by pass some blocks for those few SC members in the Far East hungry for western news. Also included an image here of a model and some info about the new projected Chinese Type 093/09 III SSN. Enjoy.

Steve Reichmuth



China says sub disaster killed 70

Friday, May 2, 2003 Posted: 2145 GMT ( 5:45 AM HKT)

BEIJING, China (CNN) -- A Chinese conventional submarine on a military training exercise was involved in an accident in which all 70 people aboard were killed, China's state-run Xinhua news agency reported Friday.

The news agency blamed the accident -- said to have happened in recent days -- on mechanical problems. It is not known when the accident took place. The vessel -- identified as submarine 361 -- has been recovered from eastern Chinese territorial waters east of Neichangshan and towed to an unidentified port, the agency said.

The area is in the Yellow Sea between China and North Korea. In a telegram of condolences to the families of the victims, Chinese Central Military Commission Chairman Jiang Zemin expressed sorrow over the "big loss" and described the crew as "the good children of the people and loyal defenders of the motherland and that their heroism and contributions will not be forgotten by the people of the country."

The submarine -- one of about 90 in the 2.5 million-strong People's Liberation Army fleet -- is non-nuclear.

It was one of the worst naval accidents in Communist China's history, a military source told Reuters. In the mid-1980s, a destroyer exploded near the southern island province of Hainan killing nearly 100 people.

It is exceedingly unusual for the Chinese government to report publicly on such accidents. CNN Beijing Bureau Chief Jaime FlorCruz said the fact that the announcement came when the Chinese would normally be celebrating the May Day week holiday was even more remarkable. Pentagon officials Friday said the United States did not know about the submarine accident until the Chinese announced it. Officials said they do not have any details on the accident beyond what the official Chinese news agency is reporting.

The Type 035 (Ming class) is a remodeled Romeo-class submarine -- built with Russian Korean War era technology -- which itself is based on the German Type-XXI U-boat of 1944, according to China Defence Today, an unofficial Web site of Chinese defense affairs.

The boats are considered obsolete by modern standards, the Web site says, but the Chinese have found them useful for patrol and coastal defense duties, and construction of them continues providing a relatively inexpensive replacement for aging Romeo-class boats. Boat 361 was one of six in service with China's East Sea Fleet.

"The development of the Type 035 diesel electric submarine began in 1967. The first two boats were completed between 1971 and 1972 and entered service in 1974," China Defence Today says.

"One of the first three boats was later scrapped after a fire accident. The earlier models showed faults which delayed the series production of the class, and they have since been retired." Ex-US Navy submarine captain Ed Brownlee told CNN that China has been increasing training and exercises of its submarines in the east to carry out a policy of "sea denial" to try counter the powerful U.S. Pacific fleet.

-- CNN Beijing Bureau Chief Jaime FlorCruz contributed to this report



New Chinese SSN

Type 093/09 III is the new generation of SSN to replace the old Type 091 in the first decade of 21st century. Its main mission was speculated to be against American CVBGs in the western Pacific. This sub has been under development for more than 10 years but encoutered certain technological bottlenecks in the early 90s particularly in the area of noise reduction measures (such as for the new nuclear powerplant). It was reported Russian assistance was sought to resolve those critical issues in the late 90s. As the result, Type 093 appears to have heavy Russian influences with some features of Kilo class such as a bow mounted sonar and double hull design, as indicated by the vent holes along the side of the hull. Its noise level is further reduced by a new asymmetrical seven-blade skewed propeller. However, those vent holes may actually generate noise at higher speeds, thus increase the noise level. It is possilbe that this model may not be the final design which went into the construction. The displacement of Type 093 was estimated to be 7,000-8,000t dived. It is expected to be able to fire advanced wire-guided torpedos and launch anti-ship cruise missiles. Its overall combat capability was thought to be comparable to Russian Victor III class in the late 70s, but still a significant technological achievement when compared with its predecessor. The first of this class may already haven been launched by the end of 2000 and may be currently undergoing sea trial. A total number of six to eight 093 SSNs are projected.


Image
Dolphin
 

Postby Dolphin » Fri May 02, 2003 11:18 pm

Image did not seem to go up on board in first message. One last try. Interesting model, but still not close to Merrimans! :;):

[url=http://www.stormpages.com/jetfight/sub/093a.jpg[IMG]]http://www.stormpages.com/jetfight/sub/093a.jpg[IMG][/url]
Dolphin
 

Postby Robse » Mon May 05, 2003 1:29 pm

A little news on this accident: A Danish article on the web states that experts has not yet been able to discover the cause of the accident. All crewmembers were found on their posts, and there's no sign of any explosion, nor water intrusion. The probable cause of their deaths is stated as suffercation.

... could they be talking about CO2 poisoning?

Image

Image of "Ming Class subs"
Yours Sincerely, Robert Holsting, Denmark
1/81 SSBN Ohio Class scratch builder, more at www.robse.dk

"Never be afraid to try something new; remember that it was amateurs who build Noah's Ark, and professionals who build the Titanic"
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Postby raalst » Mon May 05, 2003 3:33 pm

If the photo is accurate, then the Ming is an
improved Romeo.

I have one static kit on order. Trumpeter makes
these romeo kits
(www.trumpeter-china.com)

one warning : Trumpeter is based in Guangdong,
SARS-country. I hate to think the virus travels
in cardboard boxes...

Regards,
Ronald
Regards,

Ronald van Aalst

--------------------------------------------
Just here to Learn
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Postby Robse » Tue May 06, 2003 12:54 pm

Hi Raalst

<<Quote from cnn.com:>>

The Type 035 (Ming class) is a remodeled Romeo-class submarine -- built with Russian Korean War era technology -- which itself is based on the German Type-21 U-boat of 1944, according to China Defence Today, an unofficial Web site of Chinese defense affairs.

The boats are considered obsolete by modern standards, the Web site says, but the Chinese have found them useful for patrol and coastal defense duties, and construction of them continues providing a relatively inexpensive replacement for aging Romeo-class boats.

Boat 361 was one of six in service with China's East Sea Fleet.

"The development of the Type 035 diesel electric submarine began in 1967. The first two boats were completed between 1971 and 1972 and entered service in 1974," China Defence Today says.

"One of the first three boats was later scrapped after a fire accident. The earlier models showed faults which delayed the series production of the class, and they have since been retired."

<<END QUOTE>>

Image
Above: Ming class subs at habour.

...so U're right, Sir. It is a modified "Romeo". :)

About your kit and SARS: U might wanna flush those tubes an extra time just to make sure... maybe it would be even better to wash somebody not too important through the torpedo tubes just to clean it.... oh, let's say a cook or something.. just let him go at 500 ft. or so, that should take care of any SARS bacteria in the torpedo tubes...
:D
Yours Sincerely, Robert Holsting, Denmark
1/81 SSBN Ohio Class scratch builder, more at www.robse.dk

"Never be afraid to try something new; remember that it was amateurs who build Noah's Ark, and professionals who build the Titanic"
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Postby Dolphin » Tue May 06, 2003 10:27 pm

Here is a theory by me on the loss of the Chinese Romeo Ming boat which I have not shared before, was that the crew suffocated. The boat was probably snorkelling at periscope depth, and a automatic flapper (much like those in a automobile carburettor) activated by a switch circuit closing normally in the Snorkel head. Usually a large wave passing over the snorkel head will complete the circuit and close the air valve. Possibly the snorkel became stuck closed, and the diesel engines which draw a huge volume of air then began to draw the limited air from within the submarine (unpleasant to crew!). The crew may have not reacted quickly enough (perhaps due to a problem with carbon monoxide already sufficiently present to dull crew response?). The sudden change or loss of air pressure (much like in a vacuum chamber) might explain why the captain had blood from his mouth, nose, eyes and ears.

Just kicking this out there.

Steve Reichmuth
Dolphin
 


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