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1/35 Scale Type XXIII U-Boat

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Re: 1/35 Scale Type XXIII U-Boat

Postby Sub culture » Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:34 am

Plenty of surplus Pittman motors on ebay.

These days you can do electric fish at 1/35th scale.
Last edited by Sub culture on Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1/35 Scale Type XXIII U-Boat

Postby sam reichart » Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:09 pm

Warpatroller wrote:
sam reichart wrote:Damnit. I have to get to work on my Type XXIII.


Yeah, you and me both..

Edit time..
Man, it has been a while since I've been on here.. I found the Rogue Subs posts regarding the Gerza kits.. I now remember his announcement about the XXIII and XXI from almost 2 years ago, I had forgotten about that. With all the fees, shipment hassle from Europe, and the 100% vacform parts on carrier sheets, it looks like that is not a good choice for us USA guys. I'll just stick with my old school, American made 32nd P. and keep the Chinese BRONCO kit in mind as a future alternative if and when it ever gets released. It's probably not going to be as sturdy and strong as the 32nd P. hull and it won't have those cool gas powered torpedo launchers, nor come with a resin replica U-Boat badge, or a grenade proof Pittman motor..

I have another OTW Type XXIII on my bench. I have no excuse.
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Re: 1/35 Scale Type XXIII U-Boat

Postby Warpatroller » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:09 pm

Sub culture wrote:Plenty of surplus Pittman motors on ebay.

These days you can do electric fish at 1/35th scale.


I looked on ebay and only found 1 pair of 12 VDC Pittmans (2001 vintage) that look like the same motor can size and configuration as mine. The seller wants $100+shipping for the pair! That $100 pair would be a perfect set for the 32nd P. VII boat. That is the only listing I found that looks like a direct replacement for my Pittman, out of 10 active listings for 12 VDC Pittman motors. I wouldn't consider that to be "plenty". Plenty of dollars for the motors, yes! Most of them have reduction gear assemblies and are longer cans than my 32nd P. supplied motor. Seems like the 32nd P. spec. motors are pricey these days..

Electric Fish just aren't as cool as the Gas Fish that leave that long bubble trail behind them.. Supposedly a 15 to 20 foot long trail if you use Freon-12 Gas (40 to 70psi and technically illegal to use for this purpose now). When I get this boat in the water, I've got to get that torpedo launch captured on video.

Simon Smith put together some raw, bad-ass, RC submarine stuff back in the day! Including that monster 10-foot GATO Hull.. And Mike Dory's 8-foot XXI (1 of only 2 boats ever made). Scale detail is not as good as some of the more recent kits, but when the boat is out on the lake, some of that extra detail is hard to notice.
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Re: 1/35 Scale Type XXIII U-Boat

Postby Warpatroller » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:23 pm

I've been watching two different approaches at converting the Bronco to RC. One of which is being done by Merriman, and the other by Manfred over in Europe.

I came across this box style pressure hull design, someone is selling in Hong Kong today. The interesting thing, is the plastic boat hull, itself, is used as the sides and bottom of the box. Looks to be clear acrylic bulkheads, top and lids, the lids being sealed with wide rectangular silicon gaskets with closely spaced hold down screws and nuts (old school style). Drive motor uses an RC airplane 3:1 reduction unit ( I have two similar units inside my 1:16 RC Tamiya Tiger tank). Looks to have OTW style bellows pushrod seals. The brass prop he has, looks similar to the Bronco prop, but as we are all aware, that prop is inaccurate. None the less, not a bad replacement for RC use, if one wants a solid brass prop which is threaded.

It has the standard, upper hull cut out, but the thick acrylic bulkheads, hold the hull in proper shape, after the cut.. A lot of room inside compared to a 2.5" WTC.. Interesting approach.. A box pressure hull, without fabricating a box.. It is sometimes Interesting to see what these Asians come up with. Reminds me of the Bruce Lee comment about "the art of fighting without fighting".. One seperate lid for each of the three compartments, with each having its own silicon seal gasket. I would kind of call this an improved rethink of the old 32P Pressure Box. I don't these lids would flex and leak, like the 32P lid did..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WTC-BOX-SET-BRONCO-1-35-German-Type-XXIII-U-Boat-Coastal-Submarine-/271177607263

I am still undecided which method I will use on my boats.. I prefer Manfred's vertical split, and of course, I like Merriman's propeller (as I helped influence its final appearance). And I like the vast amount of interior space this Hong Kong solution provides.. Decisions, decisions..
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Re: 1/35 Scale Type XXIII U-Boat

Postby salmon » Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:32 am

O.k., here is the flip side both Manfred and David are using the same wtc, the D&E. Technology that has been tested, I have not seen a build (does not mean there isn't) showing a working one from Hong Kong. Big Dave is probably testing one too! That box type wtc needs more weight to bring it down because it is a larger volume of air. As far as opening the hull horizontally or vertically that, to me, is a personal preference. Does any of this help?
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Re: 1/35 Scale Type XXIII U-Boat

Postby sam reichart » Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:41 am

I'll be doing a horizontal hull opening, roughly along the same lines as my OTW XXIII. I expect that I will use David's ballast system, and probably his fittings kit as well...
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Re: 1/35 Scale Type XXIII U-Boat

Postby roedj » Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:56 am

Could someone please tell me what type of ballast system is being used in that box type WTC from Hong Kong.

Dan
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Re: 1/35 Scale Type XXIII U-Boat

Postby Thor » Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:19 pm

You know, the built in box is a pretty good idea for this kit! The hull is pretty thick which means it would be a good candidate for that. Because of the very low freeboard I think we could add an old fashion simple pump system and snorkel and away for go for about $50. I think I'm going to give that a whirl and see how it goes....
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Re: 1/35 Scale Type XXIII U-Boat

Postby Warpatroller » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:44 am

roedj wrote:Could someone please tell me what type of ballast system is being used in that box type WTC from Hong Kong.

Dan


It appears to be using a water pump ballast tank. The water pump is mounted in the 2nd bulkhead down from the bow end of the boat.

Thor wrote:You know, the built in box is a pretty good idea for this kit! The hull is pretty thick which means it would be a good candidate for that. Because of the very low freeboard I think we could add an old fashion simple pump system and snorkel and away for go for about $50. I think I'm going to give that a whirl and see how it goes....


The real XXIII used a single hull design. Having no separate pressure hull within a free flooding outer hull. The set up in the eBay auction is kind of similar in that regard. Utilizing most of the kit's figure 8 hull as the pressure hull making it a partial dry hull model. Unlike a true dry hull, the shafts of the control surfaces do not penetrate the pressure hull. Penetration remains the same as in a cylindrical WTC. Again, similar to the old 32P box.

salmon wrote:O.k., here is the flip side both Manfred and David are using the same wtc, the D&E. Technology that has been tested, I have not seen a build (does not mean there isn't) showing a working one from Hong Kong. Big Dave is probably testing one too! That box type wtc needs more weight to bring it down because it is a larger volume of air. As far as opening the hull horizontally or vertically that, to me, is a personal preference. Does any of this help?


Actually they are not the identical Sub-Driver. Manfred's is the standard 2.5" which is longer in length. The Sub-Driver, specifically for the Bronco, is shorter in length, to allow more room in the bow area for possible future functional torpedo launchers. The box style pressure hull has been used in RC subs dating back to the 1950s.. Skip Asay and Mike Dory can both attest to that. (I've been doing my reading on this forum for 7 years now, that is a lot of reading lol) The thing that was somewhat unusual, in this case, was using the model's hull to make up most of the surface area of the "box" (technically not a box, but I call it that). Though I am sure, this has been done before..

I think the method of opening the hull is a bit more than personal preference. David's horizontal cut required a lot of post cutting clean up work, resurfacing and re-contouring. Which utilized the expensive EverCoat filler and other products. In addition, weld line detail was lost and had to be recreated. It was a fair amount of work, to make the model look like it was designed and produced as a horizontal cut model. David did an excellent job at it, but he is also a professional at doing that kind of work. The average person trying to RC this kit, will not have anywhere near his experience. Probably only minutes of experience, in comparison.

I agree with Big Dave, that it is a shame to have to wreck such nice "plastic" and rebuild it simply to open up the hull. The "Hong Kong Box", I like that term.. The Hong Kong Box method, might require less post cut work, with its four thick and sturdy looking acrylic bulkheads that match the contours of the hull halves. God I wish I had a real workshop like Bob the Builder.. Then all this Evercoat filler stuff and horizontal dremel cutting would be less daunting. Can't you just shake the box and a sub falls out? lol

The other observation is that the top of the Hong Kong Box sits beneath the boat's waterline. So the top of the ballast tank is actually beneath the water line. This contradicts with the typical cylindrical WTC set-up where the top of the cylinder is even with the waterline of the model. A third case, is the 32P ballast tank, engineered by RC submarine mass production legend, Simon Smith. This tank did not sit fully beneath the waterline. A portion of the 32P ballast tank sat above the boat's waterline. Matter of fact, the entire ballast tank sat on top of the 32P pressure box lid, there was no tank located within the box itself. Yet, the 32P managed to dive and surface statically.

Perhaps the long term ballast tank building veterans on here can explain why the top of some tanks are located at the waterline, others beneath it and still others above it?

Maybe we will even hear from the actual Hong Kong Box builder himself? Could he be lurking on this forum..

If someone can manage to get this model configured as a reliable static diver and offer their configuration for sale, for a total cost of $500-$600, less radio equipment and pitch controller and make it construction friendly for the below average builder with his "minutes of RC sub experience" (one of my favorite Merriman quotes when he responded a long time ago to a newbie who thought he knew it all), I think you will find that more than 10 people will attempt to convert it. I keep hearing that the 32P XXIII, in particular, was prevelent, but I never saw a 32P model, in person, in my life, until I joined this forum. I did remember seeing a few of their ads for their Type VII in Model boat magazines in the 90s though. Come to think of it, the only one I have seen in person is mine and it has never been in the water. This model was advertised as "almost ready to submerge", yeah right lol! I love that! Mine is anything but almost ready to submerge :-) Why do you think I bought two Broncos!!?? Hopefully something will get in the water sometime soon over here in the desert..

Remember folks I was the propeller advisor for this kit, to the great, He Who Shall Not Be Named! That is kind of funny, but it is what it is.. I just want a XXIII, that dives and surfaces, moves around in the water, scares a few fish, and has a scale looking prop.. I've joined the Subcommittee, to Andy's detest (Andy I am part English, I am just messing with ya, course that new knowledge may not make you very happy either :-))

Maybe this year I will finally get a boat wet.. That will be the day, when Warpatroller gets his **** together and gets a boat in the water. Would be kind of cool.. We shall see.. Maybe the Hong Kong Box, with Merriman fittings kit and prop, and the ole 32P Pittman motor spinning the wheel at the stern.. This is it, do or die! This hobby is for the ELITE! This ain't no day sailin..
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