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1/96 Ohio SSBN/SSGN build underway

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Postby Pirate » Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:29 am

You are correct sir. The easiest part on a lathe is getting the sides straight. In this process it is the hardest thing. And a word to the wise, do the plaster sanding outside.
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Postby Pirate » Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:42 am

Well, I worked a lot on the master over the weekend, I think I got a lot done, but the photos may not show it.

One more thing I don't like about working with plaster, it takes too long to dry and harden. I've found myself having to wait most of the time a full day before being able to sand again after applying the plaster, especially if I had to put a heavy coat on. Although body filler is harder to sand, it sure does set up fast, making the whole process seem like it goes faster. But I can't say for sure. It just seems that way.

Anyway, last time I said I was correcting longitudunal gouges in the hull put there by the edges of the curved sanding tool I made. I did this by applying the plaster to the grooves all along the length of the hull where they appear. After it hardens, I sanded it with 320 grit wet/dry sandpaper. BUt the key is which way you sand.

By sanding width-wise instead of lengthwise, I could use the circumference of the hull to sand away just enough plaster to get rid of the low spots, but keep the round shape.

First I knocked down the obviously high spots with the sanding sponge. Here you can see them.

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Then sand around the circumference.

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The curve of the hull acts as a guide to the sand paper as it rides on the high places only, therefore leveling the newly filled areas with the rest of the surface.

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After priming again, I wanted to check the sides for straightness, to make sure they were even and true all the way down the hull. I used a long steel straight edge rested along the side. (My son helped by holding the straight edge while I took the pictures.) Where ever there is space under the straight edge needs filling.

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One side was very true. The other needed some more plaster. I filled up the length that needed raising, then used the steel straight edge and dragged it over the fill around the hull from where it was level, until I got to the other side that was level too. This left the plaster scraped down to a straight, level surface.

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Then I sanded it back flush across the hull once dry.

After priming it all again, I wanted to re-establish the center line down the top of the hull. For this reason, and to keep the very stern of the hull true to round for the shape, I left the last cardboard cross-section attached to the very end. This piece had the cross section plan still adhered to it, and that gave me the cross hairs for both vertical and horizontal axis. After glassing, which will give the whole thing more strength and retain the shape better, I'll cut this end off to the length it needs to be and glass over the stern bulkhead too.

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This picture shows the line marked up the top. But to get that line straight down the hull, I used the lines on the end as a starting point, then used a laser level shining down the length of the hull.

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Then I put some tape right down the center of the laser line from stem to stern. I used that as a guide to run my sharpie along to mark the center. Straight, true and in the center.

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I ended up doing a little more filling. After it looks true, I run my hand all along the surface of the hull. You can actually feel the high and low spots that you can't see. I couldn't help but try to get this thing better and better before the glass, even though I'll end up doing it again after.

The next photos show the hull in it's final shape before glassing. Becuase this thing is so long, it's really hard to show a good angle of the whole thing. So there are a few photos that show some different areas for you.

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Next I have to get some more glass to cover this whole bad boy. Until then...
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Glassing the master

Postby Pirate » Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:38 am

Started glassing the master. I used Steve Neil's trick of lightly coating the surface with some spray adhesive. Then when the glass cloth is layed onto the model it doesn't move and slide around on you. It worked very well.

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To get the glass to somewhat conform to the bow, I pulled it over itself until it fit, then cut out the material that overlapped, kind of like on a mercator map. Did the same, but not as much, on the stern.

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I apply the epoxy with a cheap 1-1/2 inch china bristle brush. I scoop some up out of the cup on the brush, lay it onto the cloth, and then gently work it in and away from the center of where it was put down until the cloth gets wetted out.

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On Kevin McLeod's Oscar build he let the cloth hang, wetted to a certain point, then after waiting for the epoxy to set up a bit he cut away the excess.

I chose to cut away the excess first and pull some of the strands out from the edges to kind of feather the edge. I'm hoping that will help blend it into the pieces that'll go on the bottom later. But then I also wet out the cloth all the way to the edge so there isn't any remaining dry or hanging off.

I thought it would be kind of hard to cut it while wet without pulling some of it up. And I thought the cloth hanging while wet might pull some of the resin soaked areas off the surface, creating a problem of its own in having to get it cut or sanded back when hardened to where the bond of the cloth to the hull was solid. Since this thing is primarily only foam at this point, I didn't want to take the chance of scraping or goudging it and making more work.

Here you can see how it overlapped to fit the bow curve—that will require some sanding, but it's pretty much flush. I shouldn't have to sand through any layers of glass to keep the hull shape.

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Some more angles.

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I'll try to get the bottom done tonight.

NOTE ON MISTAKES: I started here by using some fiberglass that I had laying around from previous projects. Over time from getting moved around, here and about, it got snagged and pulled in spots. Well after applying the epoxy I thought for sure these areas would just seal right down onto the surface, but they didn't. They just kept popping up like a snag in a sweater. So those areas will need more attention before continuing. My advice would be to use fiberglass cloth that is right out of the bag, or at least make sure it is flaw-free and it'll save a lot of extra work.

I'm not really sure how to proceed next. Should I sand and then fill the weave with body filler, and then apply the lightweight glass and fill the weave on that too,
or
Should I sand and just apply the lightweight glass now, then there will be less weave to fill after that?
Any suggestions?

Pete
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Postby STARK » Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:53 pm

Scotch bright pad to rough up your glass skin, and clean the surface, then prime the poop out of it!

The old Lacquer Dupont 131 (FILL & SAND) works great, or get a Urathane primer with a Hardner in it, for a rock solid assured speedy cure!

Either will allow you to Skip the Plastic coat, except for pinholes, and some weave you will miss, Trust me on this one Pete!
So much more easier to sand this way, and hey when your done sanding it is allready primed! Then a smooth coat or two of finish primer.

They do make a product that is refered to as Spray On Primer for Body Work, this has a Tube of catalyst for the hardner, it is polyester based and works well, heck you can get a quarter inch thickness & more when applyed in stages!
But I save time duing it this way (priming), a Plastic skim coat is very hard to maintain an even thickness!!

(Plastic) = Bondo/Glaze

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Postby Pirate » Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:34 pm

Thanks Brian. Almost anything to save time.

What do you think of the Dupli-color brand filler auto primer? Any good?

I'm planning on using the chart tape method of adding detail lines. You know, apply tape, coat with filling primer to build the level, then peel away the tape to reveal the recessed details.

If I use the filling primer to fill the glass weave, should I put a final coat of finish primer on top once I get the surface where I want it? Then apply the tape and filler primer again to create the details?

What I'm concerned about is having a surface hard enough, or sealed enough, to make sure the chart tape doesn't pull up any of the under surface, making the detail lines uneven in depth, or worse, pulling big chunks up.

Pete
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Postby STARK » Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:19 pm

I never herd of that Bondo Pete, and they are all different to one real point and that is how the sand, next to that they are all just fillers. Me I like and been using this stuff for about a decade for Auto Body Repair and Model making, it ain’t never let me down!

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For priming, and you want it Hard, this is the stuff I use for a base coat/sealer for my work at the shop, and for model plugs, I have found it to be God send! The Hardener insures it stays put!!!

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There are many brands to choose from for this primer, the 2K is the term in the field round here, but find a body shop and asks them or a supplier to that body shop and they should be able to hook you up! I get Flyers all the time from witch anybody can mail order the stuff, next one I get I will put up a 1 800 # so you can get on the mailing list.

I have used Tape to add detail to my models before, I secured it with CA, it stays put then! For recessed panel lines I scribe and that works for me, this 2K primer you will find makes a good substrate to scribe in, and so does the 131primer ask Merriman, but we all do things different and I plan to try your way if it yields a crisp line in the work, it may be faster for me too!

And I got say Very Nice Work Pete, damn glad you took this on!

Brian
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Postby U812 » Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:52 pm

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Last edited by U812 on Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Sub culture » Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:58 pm

Brian,

I'm always a little concerned about using twin pack products at home, they contain lots of nasty stuff like isocyanates don't they.

I know there's nothing good for you in single pack solvent based paints, but they don't seem to have quite the same nasties.

Can you roller that stuff on instead of spraying?

Andy
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Postby STARK » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:03 pm

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It is a Lacquer type primer for quick use, but for the heavy application to achieve build up and cover the bad mistakes it is the two part! And note the French writing.

This is a primer I use at work to cover small break thriugh areas, and for my models, super stuff will it kill you, you bet! I have always said nothing I use in a Body Shop that is good for your health!

Isocyanates and Isocyanines are in any two part mixture and is the Cancer causing stuff, so how do you keep from hurting yourself, simple just like Safe Sex we use protection, it ain’t just for school boys, I use rubber gloves the disposable kind, and an OSHA approved spray mask to keep body from absorbing the material! At home I employ a home made exhaust system to suck out the fumes so my wife doesn’t kill me too!

And yes you can roller any paint, heck they make a roll on primer with a two part mixture!

Brian
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Postby KevinMc » Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:08 pm

Hi Pete,

This monster is coming along really well! With respect to adding another layer of glass cloth, just put it on right away without filling any weave underneath. The weave of your first layer will get filled with the resin that's going to adhere the second layer in place, and since the second layer is a finer weave cloth than the first it'll take less to fill it once it's set up.

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Postby ManOwaR » Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:38 am

Or use Dacron (sail cloth) as a peal ply.
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Postby Rogue Sub » Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:05 pm

Pete,

Standing by for master detailing.
YARRR
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Postby Rogue Sub » Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:32 pm

Well,

The deed is done. The files have transfered. The mold is set.

Wheres the progress buddy?

:wink:

i just bought a new mini van so i wouldnt have to worry about how to get this thing around!
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Postby Pirate » Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:32 am

Ok, I held some of these back so that what I brought to the SubRegatta would be new for those attending. ANd now the rest of you can see what they saw.

The next step was laying the glass on the bottom half of the hull. I learned something new about this. I used to place the glass, then use a china bristle brush to spread the resin and wet out the glass by rubbing the resin in.

I learned that the inexpensive, and disposable, little foam paint rollers do one heck of a good job of this. And the roller forces the resin through the glass better, but also sops up the extra resin so you get only enough to properly wet out the glass because it sucks any extra back up.

I poor and spread on some resin with the brush.
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Then I spread it with the foam roller.

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Here I've sanded the first layer of resin (no pic). I debated adding another layer of finer glass, or spraying the crap out of it with filler primer to fill the cloth weave as Brian Stark (Sparks) suggested. But I decided to give it just another coat of resin with the roller to fill the weave.

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This worked well for that.

After it all cured, I needed to fill in the areas where the cloth from the top half and bottom half overlapped because it left a ridge along the side. Once I started doing this I relaized there where a lot more highs and lows to be filled than I thought, so out came the Icing again.

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This part is soooo tedious, but this is where it counts.

After sanding and filling, and sanding and filling, and sanding and filling, I then used a number of coats of the filler primer to fill in as many of the scratches as possible. But of course there are always some left, so I used some glazing putty to fill in what was left.

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Then sanded and reprimed. I wanted to get the center line, top to bottom, marked again, so out came the laser level again to use for my straight edge. Here you can see better how I used it, and then lined up a piece of tape to its center. Then I ran a sharpie down the edge of the tape to mark the center and remove the tape.

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I have been using pieces of the styrofoam I had cut the hull sections out of as a stand for the hull while I worked on it up till now. But now I need someting that will make the model level from the surface it sits on so I can mark lines running the length of the hull to line up the missile deck. So I built a quick stand out of aluminum tubes and plexiglass. This turned out pretty nice, and I think the finished boat will look good on this too.

I learned a neat trick on getting a great finished edge on plexiglass too. You braze the edge with a propane torch. I left these edges rough sanded, to where they're real foggy and almost opaque, then hit them with a torch, back and forth down the edge, until it melted back to a smooth, clear finish—fantastic! Perhaps I'll include some pictures of doing this. It was really fun and produced a fantastic finished edge. I saw it on one of the "Trick my Ride" type shows. A guy used a sheet of plex as an accent on a sound system case. He brazed the edge, then put a row of LEDs along the back edge, sandwiched the piece in between to black boxes, and the whole exposed edge lit up like a laser beam. I'll have to incorporate that into somethng I build one day.

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Here, the missile deck is formed in foam. This thing is so long it took me about a week of evenings to cut out all these pieces. But, it... loooks... movolous, dolling!

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Today I started adding plaster to the misslie deck foam, so I wrapped the already finished part of the hull with wax paper so I could get plaster all over it and not mess it up. This also allows for a good release of the plaster when I'm ready to take the missile deck off to lay glass on it.

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And some plaster.

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Missile Ripple, Baby!!!
Now I'll stick it out in the hot garage and hope it will be dry enough to sand on some tomorrow night.
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Postby Pirate » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:34 am

Steve Neill, where's your comments man? Thought for sure you'd have some input or pointers for me. C'mon, I'm waiting. Help me out here.

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