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USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:04 am

UPDATE 78

Good Morning Guys!

Well, I shot 2 coats of Future on the model. The compressor worked OK, but pressure at the gun seemed a little low. Of course, the compressor came with silicone pipe thread tape that I didn’t take time to use and there was some leakage, so that may be part of the problem, but I’m not sure that it is all of it. The (lame) owner’s manual says that it will go to 65psi, and that it will turn off at 58psi and turn back on hen it falls below 43psi. It never got above 20psi or so, and when I sprayed, it rapidly dropped to 10psi. The manual also says to lift and turn the regulator knob to the desired setting, but I turned it both ways and didn’t seem to get any response.

Anyway, here is the sail after 2 coats of Future.

First the starboard side…

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…And then the port side…

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You can just barely see the old numbers, but you can see them. Without magnification and bright lighting, most people wouldn’t even notice it. But I can. :cry:

I think I will try one more coat of Future. It may do the trick. I may even spray a coat of Dullcoat on it, before I completely resign myself to the fact that it needs to be redone. I should know by the end of the day.

CHEERS!!!
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby Tom Dougherty » Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:38 pm

Just FYI, spray pressure for most paints should be in the 20-30 PSI range. You really don't want the pressure too high.

I am afraid that you may have to spray a very light coat of black over the old number area to hide it completely, and then recoat with future. Go very light with the paint, as you only need to hide the minimal visible numbers. If you need to mask to protect the newer numbers, I would use a "loose edge" mask, with the tape only burnished down on half the width of the tape and the tape edge around the area to be painted a bit loose. This will keep you from getting a hard edged "box" effect where you are applying paint to hide the old numbers.
Tom Dougherty
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:45 am

UPDATE 79

Thanks once again Tom. This is good information to know.

With regards to pressure, the gun compressor worked a lot better this time after I put the Teflon tape on the connection threads. It seems to run now in the 20-30 psi range you mentioned.

Also, I didn’t realize that you could do touch up painting over the clear coat, and I will definitely keep that in mind, but I may get lucky and not need to. Here are a couple of pictures showing the area. I tried to get the worst shot of it, so this is as bad as it gets. The Future has helped, and another coat or two might get rid of it completely. I don’t know. The question is, what effect will the Dull Coat have? Will it cover it more, or do the opposite and make it stand out more?

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Unfortunately, as you can see in the image above of the port side sail, I applied the Future a little too heavy, and it ran. I didn’t catch it before it dried and wondered what would be the best way to go about removing it. Can you sand or buff Future. Or would it mess it up? Any suggestions on how to fix it?

In the meantime, I took some pictures of the nearly completed model against a backdrop I found on-line and printed out on a color plotter. Enjoy!

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On another note, my wife had a good idea for my next submarine model. She says to make water and put a wire or stretched sprue sticking out of it for a periscope. :D

CHEERS!!!
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:26 am

UPDATE 80

Good Morning Guys!

So, yesterday afternoon, I decided to try Tom’s suggestion and hit the area with another shot of paint. I found an old soccer sock with a hole in the heel and put it on the model. The heel hole was a perfect fit for the sail.

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I then went outside and shot a light coat on it. And an hour later, shot another one.

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I must say that I was freaking out at this point and was sure that I was going to be redoing the sail. For good or bad, I took some super fine sandpaper and sanded off the run spots below the sail on the port side. I don’t know what grade it is. It came with a Testor’s paint kit I bought when I first decided to build a model with my dad almost 2 years ago. After an hour or so, I started applying light coats of Future. After 3 coats, here is what it looks like.

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As you can see, it worked. You can no longer see the numbers. On the port side there is a slightly distinguishable line between the 2 areas, but I had applied the tape vertically, so it doesn’t look too bad. The runs on the hull are gone, so the sanding worked. On the starboard side you can also barely see the area that was painted, but it definitely looks better than it did.

I think I will apply one more coat this evening, and then give it a couple of coats of DullCoat (which I am still reluctant to do because it looks so cool shiny.)

Question for future reference... On the port side picture after the paint and before the future you can see dimpling from before. Does anybody know what would cause this?

CHEERS!!!
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby Tom Dougherty » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:53 am

On the port side picture after the paint and before the future you can see dimpling from before. Does anybody know what would cause this?


It looks like it might be "orange peel" which comes from spraying too far away, and the paint dries "in flight" on the way to the surface. That can be due to too far a distance or too high a pressure when spraying. You end up with a surface that is bumpy and looks like an orange.

As far as sandpapers, go to an auto shop and you can find 600, 1000, 1200 and finer grades of sandpaper. These are made specifically to get smooth blending on auto paint jobs.

The way too avoid sharp tape edge marks is to make sure that the long edge of the tape facing the area to be painted is loose, even slightly lifted from the surface, with the other side away from the area to be sprayed burnished down. . This helps to get a feathering effect and avoids sharp boundary lines between paint coats.
Tom Dougherty
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby salmon » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:27 pm

Sometimes, getting over the fear is the hardest part!
These techniques you are learning you will use in future builds. I am a big believer in showing the good, bad, and ugly while doing a build log. Others will learn from your mistakes and not do the same thing ( or learn how to fix an error made).

Orange peel can also come from too heavy of a coat of paint or applying another coat over a still wet coat. There are other things to think of too, such as oils left on the surface from handling or manufacturing.
Getting to know your air brush and compressor will help the finish of your sub. It may seem like you're taking steps backward but, with practice, you will go far beyond what a rattle can will do. That being said, I know some truly gifted builders and all they use are spray cans.

Anyways, this is a fun WIP! Kudos to Tom Dougherty for his excellent guidance too!
If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:59 pm

UPDATE 81

Good morning guys! I put one more coat of Future on it yesterday evening, just before dark.

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The port side is good. The numbers and paint line are gone and the run is barely noticeable. There is some orange peeling still, and based on the info you guys gave me on it, I suspect it came near the end of the painting. The can I had was almost out and was sputtering/spitting some. I sanded the irregularities off of the hull, but evidently I missed the sail. The starboard side is much better, but if you look hard with the right lighting you can still barely see part of the original 6, and the paint line is also noticeable if you look for it under good lighting. In any case, it is much better than it was and I don’t think that you would notice that the dimple on the starboard side was a 6 unless you knew it had been there and were looking for it.

My hobby shop is closing early this week for some reasons, so I wasn’t able to get any Dullcoat. I will get some today, although I still may apply one final coat of Future, before the Dullcoat (which, as I’ve said, I almost hate to put on because it looks cool, if unreal, shiny).

Once again I want to thank you guys for all of your comments and help throughout this adventure. Although some of what I have learned from you will not help on this model at this point, as Tom said,it will definitely help improve my modeling on future builds. Hopefully I will never have to use the bit on avoiding sharp tape marks TomD., but I wouldn’t bet on it, and it is a good technique to have in my tool chest.

Your comments, about getting over the fear Tom, are right on the money. I read a comment similar to that in another post somewhere, and couldn’t agree more. This seems especially true near the end of a build, where one goof (or two or three) can ruin the efforts of a lot of work.

Because my modeling tends to have more bad and ugly than good, my posts of course reflect that. My feeling is that if I’m not going to show the good, the bad and the ugly, I shouldn’t maintain a WIP, I should just post the final product. I hope that my posts do help someone avoid mistakes I made fixing mistakes, and better yet, the original mistakes too. One thing is for sure. I know a LOT more about modeling, and naval history and architecture as a result of posting than I would had I not posted the build. I’ve had fun doing it, and it makes me feel good knowing that you guys have had fun following it.

As for air brush expertise Tom… At this point, all I have is a $9 gun, so I have only used it for clear coating. Eventually, I suspect that I will eventually get a good gun, but it probably won’t happen until I need a color that I can’t find in a can.

Have a great day guys!

CHEERS!!!
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:58 pm

UPDATE 82

Hi Guys,

Changing tacks a bit… I received the printed bow section of the detailed model from Pavel this afternoon. I’ll let the pictures do the talking, but suffice it to say that I am pretty excited. Enjoy!

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CHEERS!!!
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby Scott T » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:52 pm

That looks amazing. The only thing they didn't do is run it through the copier and print color on it.

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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:52 pm

UPDATE 83

Hi Guys!

I hear you Scott. :lol:

You jest, but my guess is one day you will be able to do something just like that. The lower resolution extrusion type 3D printers already allow multiple color printing. It’s only a matter of time before they figure out how to do it at the higher resolution machines.

Anyway, after giving it a lot of thought, and even posting for opinions on the Ship Model Forum, I decided to go ahead and Dull coat it. I really like it and even though I liked it shiny, I think I like it better dulled down a bit.

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Unfortunately, near the end of what I thought was the final coat, a damn bug landed on it, and of course, stuck to it. I wiped it off OK and didn’t think anything of it, because it didn’t appear to leave a mark. Well, when I was taking these pictures and got to the port site, there was a shiny spot right where that sucker had landed.

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After 3 more light coats, heavy in the friggin’ insect zone, it was almost gone. The last coat is drying as I type. I guess that is one of the hazards of painting outside. Let’s just hope the birds stay away from it.

CHEERS!!!
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby salmon » Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:55 pm

Scott T wrote:That looks amazing. The only thing they didn't do is run it through the copier and print color on it.

Scott T


Scott,
There are 3D PRINTERS $$$$ that do color.

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If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:36 pm

UPDATE 84

Hello again guys!

That’s pretty cool Scott. What size are they? And can you say milk toast? :D

Anyway guys, I have some more pictures for you. First, the fourth coat did the trick and eliminated the bug smudge spot.

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So, my first generation 3D printed model is officially completed and now just awaits her permanent berth. I expect that the base will be ready any day now, and the folks at the trophy store said they needed to talk to me and I missed them today by 15 minutes (they closed at 2, rats!) Of course I will take pictures when she is properly berthed.

As for the second generation, I sprayed the bow section part with some crappy Tamiya primer that I would never use on a model, but I wanted a light color and the only other primers I have are black and red oxide. It served the purpose, and I couldn’t be happier. The pictures are somewhat redundant, but I couldn’t decide which ones to toss. Enjoy!

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I really couldn’t be happier with the way it came out. The grain lines though readily apparent with the primer on are small and should be fairly easy to remove, and Pavel thinks he can minimize these somewhat by printing it vertical rather than horizontal.. Even the MBT baffles, that I thought I was going to have to redo, look good with the primer on them, except for the one at the seam, but that will be easy to fix. It just needs some material under it. Unfortunately, you probably noticed a major issue with the design. One of the early detailing things I did, back in Update 14 on 12/15/2012, before I had started to learn anything about the ship and submarines, was scribe the waterline marked on the plans. Oops! This was stupid and will not be easy to fix and in fact, I have yet to figure out the best way to remove it, but it has to be done before I can have any of the hull printed, unless I want to print the parts as is and fill the etched waterline, which is always an option and may in fact be the easiest route. We’ll see.

CHEERS! And thanks again everybody for your assistance and support on this project!
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby Tom Dougherty » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:11 pm

....was scribe the waterline marked on the plans. Oops! This was stupid and will not be easy to fix and in fact, I have yet to figure out the best way to remove it,


On the completed part, tape immediately up to the line as a mask, use minimal glazing putty, then sand flat when the putty is dry. Again, when sanding, sand at a 45 degree angle to the long axis of the hull to minimize flat spots due to sanding. Use 600 grade paper, followed by 1000 grade.
Tom Dougherty
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Project Azorian Documentary: http://www.projectjennifer.at/
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby rdutnell » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:06 am

Yep Tom! Just like on the seams on the first model, which I'm sure I'm going to have to deal with again too.
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Re: USS Greenling (SSN-614) Scratchbuild

Postby Tom Dougherty » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:36 am

Quick question. From the very fine details, it looks as if the latest version was done on a high end professional grade 3-D printer (which I understand can go for $50-100,000 or more), which belongs to a professional model kit maker. I see fine detail and draft numbers that would be out of the question in terms of step size with the home 3-D printers. Do you know or can you find out what the minimal step size is for the printer? Also, how durable are the small details from such a printer? Are the small parts (e.g., the cleats on deck) easy to accidentally knock off when handling? I am wondering if the 3-D printing at this level is really suitable for a master model from which a mold would be created to pull duplicates.

Thanks!
Tom
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