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My Gato RCABS style

R/C Submarine modelers

Postby Sub culture » Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:17 pm

What you need to do is get a copy of 'Model Submarine Technology' By Norbert Brueggen, available from Traplet publications-

https://shop.traplet.com/product.aspx?c=294

This I refer to as the submariners bible. It covers just about every area of constructing a working model submarine, short of DIY hull construction.

Folk from a non-technical background will find it a tough read, but if you're serious about scratchbuilding model submarines, it needs to be digested and understood.

Determining pressure hull strength is well covered in that book. The dimensions of your cylinder are usually dictated by the shape of the hull.

One last thing, if you do purchase the book,and I strongly recommend it, don't build any of the electronics. For one they are seriously out of date now, and secondly they're riddled with errors.
'Why are you staring at an empty pond?'

Want to dive your boat in crystal clear water? Then you had better Dive-in- http://www.diveintomodelsubmarines.co.uk
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Postby SteveNeill » Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:11 pm

For me John it's more about the modeling than the engineering. I prefer to use a WTC kit or prebuilt WTC. I have made my own but I always try to keep it simple as possible to have a reliable good running model to enjoy.

I wrote my book "Submarine Modeling for Dumbasses" for the craft of making your own model from scratch. In the book I talk about the how a sub works, the types of systems, and where to get them. But my main focus is always been in crafting your own model. That's my strength. Scratch building or assembling the part you see both in the water and on your self.

So if I'm a bit vague at times in answers regarding the mechanics and other specs of the operating system, it's because I rely on the engineers in this hobby to answer those questions best. As in all fields it is a matter of compartmentalization.

Steve
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Postby Sub culture » Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:25 am

Brushless motors.

Excellent motors, but bear the following in mind-

1. Generally the ideal RPM range for a motor in a model submarine is 2000-5000 RPM, depending on the prop fitted, size of model etc.

2. 12-24 volts is the best operating range.

3. A look at the majority of motors on the market reveals that the choice of motors that foit this spec is very small, and those that do tend to be too big for smaller models.

4. High quality brushed motors (i.e. Pittman, Buehler, Maxon etc.) will last thousands of hours in use. A lifetime for a model submarine. They're also extremeley efficient and brushed DC controllers are inexpensive.
'Why are you staring at an empty pond?'

Want to dive your boat in crystal clear water? Then you had better Dive-in- http://www.diveintomodelsubmarines.co.uk
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Postby hakkikt » Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:48 am

Is 12V (let alone 24V) a realistic value for sub in the 2 foot range? I was under the impression that 6-7.2V is what most people use in subs of that size.
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Postby Sub culture » Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:01 am

12 volt is easily achieveable with todays high density batteries.

24 volt is better suited to larger models (four feet and over).

Higher voltage is beneficial- allows thinner wiring, BEC's work better, less commutator sparking, better choice of motors etc.

Andy
'Why are you staring at an empty pond?'

Want to dive your boat in crystal clear water? Then you had better Dive-in- http://www.diveintomodelsubmarines.co.uk
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Postby Sub culture » Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:47 am

I'm not negative towards brushless motors. I've been using them for a few years now, but in aeroplanes, and they're excellent.

Very high power to weight ratio, inexpensive and maintain their power with virtually zero maintenance.

I'm just pointing out that the advantages aren't so marked in many submarines especially scale designs.

A GOOD high quality brushed motor will be more efficient than many so-so cheap brushless motors.

The increase in bulk and weight isn't that big a problem unless you are working on something small and/or exotic.

I'm well aware the German modellers are using them in their submarines. However bear in mind that in a lot of cases, these motors have been hand wound and casings machined from scratch as off-the-shelf motors with the desirable kv i.e. around 200-300kv are very difficult to source. This isn't beyond a competent machinist with access to lathe but without those skills you've had it.

The motor you've shown above is far too high revving for any submarine boat, short of a subdog perhaps, and that might be pushing it.

You can fit a gearbox, but that will go a long way towards eliminating any efficiency gained from switching over from a brushed motor.

I won't mention the price of that little combo either........
'Why are you staring at an empty pond?'

Want to dive your boat in crystal clear water? Then you had better Dive-in- http://www.diveintomodelsubmarines.co.uk
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Postby SteveNeill » Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:33 pm

Gentleman. With all due respect. Don't you thing we are a little off topic with my thread? Lets get back on it and talk about my Gato or start a new thread for this topic.

Thanks very much.

Steve Neill
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Postby SteveNeill » Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:35 pm

And once more because I'm not sure you read this, John.

For me John it's more about the modeling than the engineering. I prefer to use a WTC kit or prebuilt WTC. I have made my own but I always try to keep it simple as possible to have a reliable good running model to enjoy.

I wrote my book "Submarine Modeling for Dumbasses" for the craft of making your own model from scratch. In the book I talk about the how a sub works, the types of systems, and where to get them. But my main focus is always been in crafting your own model. That's my strength. Scratch building or assembling the part you see both in the water and on your self.

So if I'm a bit vague at times in answers regarding the mechanics and other specs of the operating system, it's because I rely on the engineers in this hobby to answer those questions best. As in all fields it is a matter of compartmentalization.

Steve
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