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What battery for my VIIc?

R/C Submarine modelers

What battery for my VIIc?

Postby rockhopper037 » Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:15 pm

Hi

I have decided to use a lipo, with mtronik viper esc to power my VIIc.
What i dont know is wether to use 7.4v or 11.1v.
Also what mha should i go for and does it matter?

Thanks
Rockhopper
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Postby Mike Dory » Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:18 pm

Howdy - We're going to need more info then posted to reply. (1) what's the voltage of your running motors? (2) What sort of ballast system are you using ie. Engle tank pumps, Reveresable pumps, low pressure blow system (like propel), High pressure system like (CO2), There's many others types. They all use current some more then others. and lastly. How long do you want to be able to run before charging again? Are Lipo batteries a must or are you willing to look at other types of batteries. Best Wishes on your project.......Mike Dory
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Postby aquadeep » Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:06 pm

I havent started building my OTW VIIc but have pre planed it out .

I strive for long run times of an avrage 2 hours on large subs.
I also like to just launch her and not bring her back into port until she is almost out of juice.

A non pressurized pump system will provide scale like dives and serface operations as well as hoverring.

I would have used a compressor based system but with the casing I intend to use just wont fit unless I went with a smaller compressor.

As for the batteries NIMH packs ,2 each one on either end of the single ballast tank in dry compartments of 5000mah each at 12volts provide plenty of power.
Cannon plug connectors where needed,charging,lights ect.

Also another alternative would have been sealed lead ascid batteries in the wet that would have been cheaper but in this particular hull acsses is a bit of a problem.
Which brings me to the next thing I want to do.
The top deck of this sub made from stainless steel is a thing of beuty and should be not disturbed as much as possible so I thaught that I would build it in a manner like the Robbe Type XXI ,the inner casing comes out from the rear and the deck is left alone.

To do this the hull would have to be cut in a similar manner ,or in a inverted "L" shape ,is the other alternative preserving the aft section from any cuts .
There are weld lines that I can follow to do this.
Of course hull reinforcements and indexing methods will be done along with an alloy reinforced keel and casing tray.

In this way the intire casing comes out for excelent acsses and the hull is also acssesable.

Hydraulic Masts ,forward planes ect. will be connected via magnetic links.
I plan on useing my Aquadeep bayonet casing. :D

If you plan on useing lipos be wary of there strickt usage rules and there expensive ,not to mention they can melt down or even expode if not properly charged. :shock:

2 3.5 geared water cooled Aquadrive units will proppel her for those long voyages. :D
A host of sensors will be used on the onboard telemetry system that will keep me informed as to motor temp,battery temp,pump pressures ,time remaining of the main batteries,navigation info and best of all real time depth.
The Eagle Tree Seagull system is fantastic and would not laeve port without it,all Captains don't misout on this system!
There is alot more on the plans but lets wait for the build.

Enjoy building her!

Dave :D



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Postby raf » Thu Apr 30, 2009 6:23 am

the Eagle Tree Seagull system into a submarine ????

i visited the site but could find nothing about a submarine
the frequencie 's used are 433 Mhz ,900 Mhz and 2.4 Mhz
all not don for submarines
surface ships ok but to transmit from a depth of 5 meters ?????

not shure of this will work

regards raf
if its a submarine i like it
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Postby junglelord » Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:07 am

Yeah the dewalt batterys, are the same as used in the worlds fastest motorcycle. Best way to go, far better then Lipo for all the reasons mentioned. Add to that the use of the motors as explained by our seasoned member Aquadeep, and you have a really perfect trade in technology to our hobby.

Kudos to our Aquadeep for using brains and existing technology and beating the high end cost of limited consumer items.
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Postby raf » Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:51 pm

hallo

@ dave

the replay email from Eagle Tree Seagull
HI Raf,



Thanks for your email and interest in our products. Unfortunately the signal of our Seagull Systems would be unlikely to be able to transmit the data in real time through the water. I discussed the issue with our technical support staff and they said that it definitely would not be effective in salt water. The speculated that there is a slight chance you might be able to go to a vey shallow depth (maybe 0-1m) in fresh water if you used the lowest frequency transmitter (433 MHz), but since we haven’t tested the units under these conditions they are not positive.
However, if you do not need the data in real time then you might consider using either just the black box data recorder or the eLogger line of products. They would record the data during your voyage so you download and review the information afterwards.
Please let me know if I can be of any further assistance.



Best Regards,
if its a submarine i like it
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Postby aquadeep » Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:30 pm

Since they have not tried ,it I did and can garante to every one that the 900mghrz TX unit works in fresh water,I never said it worked in salt and I don't run in salt,but with a different antena it might work.

The reseption I get in the pond I have currently tested in ,which has probbably some metals ect .in it since its reclaimed water.
Real time readings are displayed on the Dashboard from lake level down to about a meter,measurements are soo sensative even the free board level is measured,WOW :o ,mind you useing the supplied un modified antena.
No modifications to the unit was done ,just normal setup as if in a plane or helli for the shaft RPM.
Store your models peramiters and even temp,depth,voltage alarms as you like and what you want to see on the dashboard ie. DEPTH or not at all with the supplied USB cable.

There is available an up grade Yagi antena and TX antena that gives even better performance,or the super 900 mghrz 1 watt system, I believe theTX transmits several miles! But cost more.I just tried the normal system and am very very happy with it. :D

On the serface even with the antena submerged a few inches the range of TX is far greater out to 400+ meters! :D
Even that is good as while running on the serface out at distance the full range of readdings are available.

Set the alarm for aproaching Lipo low voltage and you will know when to bring the sub back into port.

Periscope depth is no problem if your at that depth all the readings are shown in real time out to about 50 to 60 meters. :D


Its a wonderfull profetional grade system that can go on anny viecle be it a RC sub or a Jet Liner! 8)

It replaces a host of bench tools i.e voltmeter,ampmeter tempsensing tools ,digital RPM meter ect. that alone pays for its self,with all the super easy plug and play sensors every single operational aspect of your sub can be minitored ,loged,saved on your laptop and viewed later for further improvement and saved for forseeing overheating components and maulfunctions.
Even lost radio signal logs!
All integrated into a standard servo size black box and thin longer TX unit.

It will in no way affect your subs performance or radio reception as long as you follow the easy installation instructions that mostly says , to position the TX antena as far away from the models RX as possible,no biggie I tried it close to my RX and saw no diffrence or glitches,JR and Futaba RX TX.
The unit will shut down if the supplied voltage drops bellow a set range and if it goes to high.
Confirming beeps tells you when its recieving and and if the signal is lost,thats how I gauged the reception distances.

Try the system out for your self,if it does not blow your ballast sort of speak then send it back,great company to deal with and very profetional products.

I am sure that Eagle Tree will update there site to mention the RC Sub aplication and will make a depth gage on the PC display program as soon as more systems are sold to RC Sub drivers.

I am going to order the voltage sensor,no inline splicing nice! Also the On Screen vedeo unit and on board mini display for the SB-2 Sub.

Later I will try the GPS option that should be realy interesting to see just how well it recieves underwater,but even if just a few inches say at mast level it should be usefull,but even as a serface readings go it would aid in locating a lost sub.

I did not try the 433 mrhrz unit I think the 900 transmits longer distances and more powerfull cleaner signal.
Thank you junglelord for your well recieved coments :D

I am in no way affiliated with Eagle Tree Systems nor am I tring to sell there products ,just demonstrating that there systems work very well on my Ladies. :wink:

Dave Amur Sub Yard
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Last edited by aquadeep on Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"I like submarine comanders ,they don't have time for bull!!" and
"Don't tell me it can't be done!"

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Postby aquadeep » Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:48 pm

The Dewalt Lithium iron phosphate batteries sound good ,Ill check them out ,can you show the case opened ?

If they are as flexable in there aplications in RC Subs like SLA batteries are and as cost effective ,then there even more interesting.

Dave
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"Don't tell me it can't be done!"

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Postby rockhopper037 » Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:55 pm

Mike Dory wrote:Howdy - We're going to need more info then posted to reply. (1) what's the voltage of your running motors? (2) What sort of ballast system are you using ie. Engle tank pumps, Reveresable pumps, low pressure blow system (like propel), High pressure system like (CO2), There's many others types. They all use current some more then others. and lastly. How long do you want to be able to run before charging again? Are Lipo batteries a must or are you willing to look at other types of batteries. Best Wishes on your project.......Mike Dory


Opps sorry guys, guess i was a little vauge with my original post!
My intention is to build a working sub, on a tight budget. I am open to all suggestions, but certain items have already be purchased so can not be changed.
So here are the details
Revell 1/72 VIIc, using the Norbert Bruggen conversion kit including 385 drive motor - purchased
Ballast system - home made, using 12v washer pump motor and foil baby food pouch as water bladder - purchased and tested at 7.4v, draw appox 1 amp.
Transmitter, Servos, Speed controller, ballast pump controller and battery still to buy.
The ballast tank controller i intend to build myself, using a design from aquadeep (thanks Dave)
For the speed controller i'm looking at the micro viper from mtronik, due to cheap price and small size.
So what are my best battery options?

Thanks
Rockhopper
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Postby xxl » Fri May 01, 2009 12:30 pm

radio shack
Captain Ramius: You're afraid of our fleet. Well, you should be. Personally, I'd give us one chance in three. More tea anyone?

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Postby kazzer » Fri May 01, 2009 7:57 pm

For a Revell 1:72 VII then I'd suggest you go with a 7.2 LiPo 1300mah. I presume the cylinder will be 2" diameter?

Image

http://www.caswellplating.com/models/vislero.html

This will give you more poke for the size and you really don't have much room in this boat.

You can see the specs for our cylinders at http://www.caswellplating.com/models/sub-drivers.html This should give you some parameters to work with. There are two we have for this boat. One assembled - $450 and almost RTR, and a kit form - $365, if you are handy. These units are a really good deal as they come with twin motors, Mtroniks ESC and servos. It runs on the Snort system with a Propel back-up failsafe. The Sub-driver also leaves room for our torpedo system in the bow.

We also have The Revell Type VII U Boat Ballast Weight Kit which has foam inserts and lead molded weights.
http://www.caswellplating.com/models/weights.html

In about a week, we will have a complete Fittings Kit for this model. It has a geared rudder assembly, deck clips, molded planes and rudder, and propellers and shafts, cost about $60.

Hope this helps.
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Re: Batteries

Postby kazzer » Sat May 02, 2009 8:23 am

sunworksco wrote:Very good price for the Li-Po batteries.
You would be foolish not to buy your parts from Caswell for this Revell hull.
Do you know where I can find the scale deck fittings and guns for my 1/32 scale IX-C 505 Submarine? I am buying a www.nextengine.com scanner for duplicating small sub parts.You have to see the Jay Leno video on their website.Incredible stuff !! The machine scans almost any part,cad files it then the part can be upsized into a larger scale.Then you take the file to the Next Engine's prototyping machine that produces a duplicate in plastic,even with moving parts assembled right out of the machine.Like magic!!You have to see it to believe it!!

http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/video/vid ... vid=944641

8)


Stunning! I want one! :D Actually, the dimensionprinting machine is the real show stopper!
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Postby Ramius-II » Sat May 02, 2009 2:11 pm

Hi All! :D
Just thought I would join in and maybe add to the discussion. I am a firm believer in 12 volts for many reasons. First, with motors they use about 1/4th the current. If you run your radio off the main 12 volt supply the battery must be close to completely dead before it reaches below 4.5 volts to operate the radio. You can always easily drop down to a voltage such as 9 volts for other items you wish to add.

Second part is about the telemetry unit. I wrote them a question about what frequency they are using as one idea would be to transmit the telemetry on the audio channel of a video camera transmitter!

Best, Ed
Just one more wire!
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Postby rockhopper037 » Sat May 02, 2009 4:55 pm

Hi are these the same as the dewalt batteries?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4-x-CR123A-123-12 ... 7C294%3A50[url][/url]

If they are the same could they be arranged as a pair at 7.4v or in a triangle arrnagement to give 11.1v
Thanks
Rockhopper
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Postby Ramius-II » Sat May 02, 2009 5:40 pm

Hi Rockhopper!
I doubt the batteries you referenced will do you much good as they are only have a 1000ma rating. Translation, 1000ma (ma = milliamps) is the same as saying the battery will provide 1 amp for 1 hour. If you have a small sub that does not require much power then you are fine. The best recommendation I can make is to select a battery or batteries that have the highest maH rating for the space or spaces you have available. The maH rating is the number of milliamps the battery will provide in one hour. A "stock" Typhoon sub from Engler for example, uses a 6 volt 10 amp hour battery. If you are not sure then you can convert milliamps to amps by dividing by 1,000 then multiply this times the battery voltage. This will give you the total power of the battery in Watts. If this is a bit much then simply determine the space available (Height, Width, Depth) and e-mail any rechargeable battery distributor and ask what would fit!

Best, Ed
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