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R/C Submarine modelers

Postby aquadeep » Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:38 pm

Love a Cap with great humor and its always fun! :D

I thought he made his own operating masts ect,I do to save money for other fun stuff like vacations and its funner to make it work for pennies on the dallar. :)

Turf wars are always fun but I did not start it , I just explained a different way to do the same thing cheaper. :roll:

Always inovating and reaserching this fun hobby is a great challange and that spirit is in us all.

Dave :D
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Postby JWLaRue » Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:06 pm

Yea, I don't get it either.

The original poster asked about Engel r/c sub kits....and all of a sudden we get off subject postings from some sort of a vendor pushing compressed and non-compressed (alternative) ballast systems...along with a number of inaccurate statements.

All the poster wanted was information on Engel kits and their ballast systems. Can't folks, especially vendors, either stay on subject or refrain from posting?

-Jeff
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Postby aquadeep » Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:37 pm

Must we get personal is that important ,I dont think so ,its just a dicusstion right. :roll:

But hay who started it.
I have better things to do.

Just a freindly builder Dave :D
Last edited by aquadeep on Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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"Don't tell me it can't be done!"

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Postby JWLaRue » Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:04 am

I don't know, Dave. You sure do sound like the pot calling the kettle black.

This has nothing to do with "anger management" (at least on my part :) ), but does have to do with jumping on someone's thread and taking it off topic.

My recent post was not personal. However, it *was* an expression of frustration at the tendency of some folks to drag posts off topic...especially when pushing their own products. It's not polite and it's not professional.

-Jeff
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Postby Pirate » Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:32 am

I think the Engel piston system is the best in the world, even though I've never operated one.

There you go. A glowing endorsement for the original poster. I've heard NOTHING but good things about Engel products. If you have the money to buy a premium product, then you go and get it. I'm not going to discourage that. When you make a premium product, you can charge a premium price for it. Those Germans make good stuff. I have an Audi automobile, and it's the best car I've ever seen, driven or felt. Yes, if something goes wrong it costs a lot to fix, but that's the price of leading edge technology. The Germans don't scrimp.
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Postby Sub culture » Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:48 am

JWLaRue wrote:
Robert F. wrote:Jeff, which aftermarket electronic module is that?


I'm using the module from Nils Brakmann, but I understand that he is now referring folks to (I think) Christian Feldmann. [/url]http://mitglied.lycos.de/cf1266/[/url]

Andy (Sub Culture) tells me that these are basically the same as the ones from Nils.

-Jeff


Just to clarify this. The board I have is made by Markus Rieger. Nils did (does?) a board, which worked on a similar system , but the only one I ever saw used relays to switch the motor, whereas Markus' board uses a solid state H-bridge, which is more compact and more reliable IMO.

Image

Christian does a very small board, based on a magnetic encoder like Markus and Nils board. It's got a much lower current rating of 5A (Versus 30A for Markus' board). However if you're using 12 volts to power your tanks, that still allows 60 watts of poke. So unless you're building a very big and inefficient piston tank, Christians board should work just fine.

Image

Either board will serve you well, the quality of Markus' board is really high with professionally made solder resist PCB's, SMD etc. Christian's look a little more home grown, but reportedly work very well, and it's tiny dimensions will suit a baby sub very well.
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Postby JWLaRue » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:25 am

Andy,

Ahh! The correction is very much appreciated! You had given me those names a while back and I clearly got the two of them mixed up.

Question: is there a control board (other than Engel's) that can handle two pistons with individual control or do we still need two?

-tnx!

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Postby aquadeep » Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:27 pm

Dear Jeff

If you dont think that your stament is not offensive or at the least unprofestional than I fell sorry for you.

I did not in any way show a picture or promote a product that this so called vendor pushes,you make people feel like drug puchers that is offensive and I expected more from a person of you stature.
I am sorry to see this on the SCR. :(

If anyone is promoting a product its you with the above module ,looks good.

Why would you mock a ballast system that is as real in its operation as the full size subs use?
It has been proven to work and was aproved by the Coast Gard.

More than likely it is because you did not make it and I can understand that feeling as others have had the same thing.

Same goes for the other system.

If anyone went off topic it was you asking me about my system ,I just mearly answered your request and all I get is BULL and even insults,but hay its all fun any way and I am well used to it.

Via Con Dios Amigo Creido! :D :wink:

Jeff Wrote:
Yea, I don't get it either.

The original poster asked about Engel r/c sub kits....and all of a sudden we get off subject postings from some sort of a vendor pushing compressed and non-compressed (alternative) ballast systems...along with a number of inaccurate statements.

All the poster wanted was information on Engel kits and their ballast systems. Can't folks, especially vendors, either stay on subject or refrain from posting?

-Jeff
"I like submarine comanders ,they don't have time for bull!!" and
"Don't tell me it can't be done!"

President Roosevelt

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Postby Sub culture » Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:06 pm

No you have to buy two boards.

I've seen some boats that use a single tank, with two pistons and connecting drive shaft between each end of the tank. The pistons move in and out simultaneously, circumventing the problem of a shifting c.o.g.

With that kind of system, one board is all you need.

You can then actively trim a boat by attaching the main battery pack to a servo. Norbert discusses this in his book.

Markus sent me details of a board for the Futaba FC-16 set. This enables, with the help of mixing facilities, the trimming of two tanks with his boards in a simple and logical manner. You have two pots attached to the transmitter. One deals with ballast volume, the other with the bias of the ballast between the two tank- the latter enables proportional, longitudinal trim. You adjust these until your boat sits very close to perfect neutral buoyancy and level trim.

Two toggle switches enable the operator to then select dive, neutral buoyancy, surface, biased or unbiased submerged trim .

If that sounds a bit confusing, then I agree it is a bit. However once I built it, and tried it out on the bench, the operation became clear. With that board, and two controllers with piston tanks, ballast can be adjusted accurately to within a gram or two.
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Postby JWLaRue » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:56 pm

Not at all confusing......the concept of being able to adjust the differential between the two tanks makes perfect sense!

Would I be correct to assume that a Futaba FC-16 is not a requirement for this capability?

....I think it may be time to start planning the ballast system for a large fleetboat using Markus' electronics.

-Jeff
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Postby Sub culture » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:14 pm

You would need some mixing facility on the set- It uses the two programmable mixers on the FC16.

A basic knowledge of the pots used on your TX would help too.

The board is totally passive, except for the addition of a small memory chip, which upgraded the FC16's model memory from 2 to 26 memories.

I made up two PCB boards, one went to Ramesh (Wheelerdealer). I left the memory chip off of his board, as he already uses Futaba's CAMPAC boards.

A PCB isn't really necessary, but makes it more compact. You could easily build up the circuit on a strip of variboard.
'Why are you staring at an empty pond?'

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Postby aquadeep » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:23 pm

Man did this thread go off the original post,I bet the poster cant believe it niether. :lol:

Dave :D
"I like submarine comanders ,they don't have time for bull!!" and
"Don't tell me it can't be done!"

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Postby JWLaRue » Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:02 pm

aquadeep wrote:Man did this thread go off the original post,I bet the poster cant believe it niether. :lol:

Dave :D


I've asked for an independent opinion about that.

Talking about control electronics as add-ons to Engel kits is not necessarily off topic....unlike some other subjects introduced into this thread. :)

-Jeff
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Postby aquadeep » Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:22 pm

Yes but its not made by Engel and thats what the thread is about right?.

Dave
"I like submarine comanders ,they don't have time for bull!!" and
"Don't tell me it can't be done!"

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Postby greenman407 » Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:03 pm

Come on dudes , lets all play nice! :D :) :!:
There are OLD pilots and there are BOLD pilots but there are very few OLD BOLD pilots. MAG
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