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Engel kits

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Engel kits

Postby xxl » Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:59 pm

What kind of quality kits do you get from engel models? Thinking akula or typhoon. What kid of dive system do these boats use
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Postby Polaris » Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:07 pm

great quality! and the best customer service you can get!

I love my Lafayette, I'm looking forward to the Type 212A they are currently working on.
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Postby tsenecal » Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:07 pm

I haven't bought any full kits from engel, but I have three of their dive systems (tank and tank switch)

The engel subs use the engel piston tank dive systems. there are several versions, from the simple to the complex.

I have bought from them over the last 8 years probably $1200 worth of parts, and have never had a problem that wasn't promptly answered with correct info within 2 days (via email)

their shipping is excellent, never taking more than 10 days to get from germany to colorado.
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Postby aquadeep » Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:50 pm

I have the master series Typhoon I baught about 4 years ago and have not yet finished her. :(
But she is on the way ,the qualty is very good with supper deatails right down to the tiles.
I used an extra set of beutyfull masts from Scale Ships to fit her out with hydraulic masts and doors ,divplanes.
I make my own casings and dive systems to save money and have more fun building in custom features. :D

The engel dive system is god but the cg changes as the tank fills,and the screw jack takes up valuble space and there expensive.
I installed a compressor bassed ballast system explained in the previouse posts and am very satified. :)

The best Akula II comes from ScaleShips.com ,Mr. Vladamir makes an ausume kit and Oscar Kursk. By far the best and god prices. :D

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Postby JWLaRue » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:54 pm

aquadeep wrote:The engel dive system is god but the cg changes as the tank fills,and the screw jack takes up valuble space and there expensive.


Most Engel-based systems use two piston tanks, which eliminates the issue around changing c.g.

As for the screw jack(s) taking up space, with the Engel pistons you need a suitable large volume of dry hull space, so it really ends up being a wash.

My own experience with the Engel piston is with my OTW Seehund where I built a dive module that uses a single piston. I oriented the piston such that the change in c.g. worked to my advantage for static dives. (i.e. bow dips down first) Even with the single piston in a removable dive module, there was no problem with the jack screw taking up space. It can be done!

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Postby xxl » Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:23 pm

man you guys have me drolling over these kits i might break down and buy one not sure. i like the sound of the tank system over the compressed gas and clear tubes. These boats sound like their easier to work on :D
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Postby aquadeep » Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:39 pm

Of coarse it can be done and and has for a long time, that is not the issue.
It just showes that you need to buy 2 of those Engel pumps to get a level dive. :roll:
Thats prity expensive,and one installed is a compromise.
For most captains /builders would want simplisity and low cost.

When a single ballast tank and inexpensive waterpump will produce a perfect level static dive and much simpler electrics that anyone can make at a fraction of the cost.

They are high quality units but there desigh drawbacks dont equal the price. :shock:
A larger casing to acomodate a small but long jack screw is not in my opinion good engeneering as the larger casing makes for more waight to counter ballance,I gues thats why full size subs dont go that rout.

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Postby JWLaRue » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:21 pm

aquadeep wrote:Thats prity expensive,and one installed is a compromise.

When a single ballast tank and inexpensive waterpump will produce a perfect level static dive and much simpler electrics that anyone can make at a fraction of the cost.


Well, that's one way to look at it. Variation is good, the challenge of building something different is part of what fuels the hobby. Building an r/c sub *always* involves compromise.

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Postby xxl » Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:52 pm

I think i might start saving for that typhoon always wanted one.
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Postby Wheelerdealer » Sat Apr 04, 2009 5:45 pm

Piston tanks do give you the opportunity of proportional control. For a larger sub, I wouldn't consider a single ballast tank, compressor, water pump or otherwise unless in was in conjuction with 2 proportional piston trim tanks.
Go for the Typhoon, if you can stretch to it.
Last edited by Wheelerdealer on Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby JWLaRue » Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:00 pm

Wheelerdealer wrote:Piston tanks do give you the opportunity of proportional control.


Excellent point about control. I've got an aftermarket electronics module that I use to control my piston that gives me full control over the entire draw of the piston. (Unlike the Engel system which is limited to the last 10% of the range.) I've got what is essentially "dial-a-depth" control that is absolutely repeatable.

It's a great way to dive! :)

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Postby aquadeep » Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:15 pm

Yes that sounds good a piston tank or tanks work good and take up less space not to mention alot cheaper than Engel pumps.
Proportional dive control is also attained with the single or double non pressurized ballast tank that works very simalar to full size tanks but no lathe is needed to make the parts nor aquire any exotic ones.

I love the Typhoon Master series I perchased it new from Engel and paid 700.00$ plus shipping It might be a bit more now but at least Engel will sell the hull seperatly from the full kit. :D

The Hull is thick and wont warp as is the top and the rest of the components are first rate.

There is another company out of Africa of all places that produces the very same hull kit at 250.00$ also made from fiberglass ,I found it after I had already got mine. :x

Dave
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Postby Robert F. » Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:36 pm

Jeff, which aftermarket electronic module is that? I am building a WTC with an Engel piston ballast tank (yes, just the one), and proportional control of the tank over the entire range would be so helpful!


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Postby JWLaRue » Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:52 pm

aquadeep wrote:Proportional dive control is also attained with the single or double non pressurized ballast tank that works very simalar to full size tanks but no lathe is needed to make the parts nor aquire any exotic ones.


Sorry, but I do not agree. You cannot achieve the type of repeatable control with any other dive system. When I set my transmitter slider to a given position, I get exactly the same amount of water ballast taken into the piston every time. There is no guessing.

As for needing a lathe....I have no idea what you might mean. There were no special parts required needing the use of a lathe and none of them were exotic.

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Postby JWLaRue » Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:55 pm

Robert F. wrote:Jeff, which aftermarket electronic module is that? I am building a WTC with an Engel piston ballast tank (yes, just the one), and proportional control of the tank over the entire range would be so helpful!


Robert


hi Robert,

I'm using the module from Nils Brakmann, but I understand that he is now referring folks to (I think) Christian Feldmann. [/url]http://mitglied.lycos.de/cf1266/[/url]

Andy (Sub Culture) tells me that these are basically the same as the ones from Nils.

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