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Compressor Bassed System For Large Subs

R/C Submarine modelers

Compressor Bassed System For Large Subs

Postby aquadeep » Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:51 pm

Hello

The compressor bassed sysytem is very staight forward and requires no fancy electronics.

the compressor is small yet very powerfull and effecient and works on 12 vdc,it is a piston type pump.

Located in the casing and getting its air from the serface via a line to the sail,air is compressed into airbanks and held there till needed on serfacing.

A 12 vdc solinoid valve is opened to release the compressed air into the ballast tank ,but it must go through a restriction or reducing volume valve that is just a small T valve cracked slightly open to allow just a small amount of air in with reduced PSI ,if not the sub would rocket to the serface and damage the tank.

The air banks can be CO2 canisters or smaller Bimba units,but as long as they are big enough to give at least several blows per compresstion and it also depends on the amount of compresstion or psi .Typicly for a sub the size of your should use 60 psi,thats all not much needed.The compresser can handle 300psi and thats just way too much.

The plumbing is very minimal and easy to do with aluminum aircraft tubbing and brass compresstion fittings found at your local hardwaere store ,1/4 inch is good.If you have never flared a tube before its easy with the tools for it.

There is a one way valve that is placed between the compressor and the airbanks to double secure from backflow though it has never happend.

The system works as follows.

Onthe serfaace the compressor is tuned on for lets say 15 secounds with all valves closed so that air can be compressed.
Then a breif open of the serface valve to check that the system is working,real subs do this very same proceedure and when air comes out of the ballast tank the valve is closed.

Continue on serface building up more air for say 15 sec be sure to turn OFF the copressor and open the dive valve ,the ballast tank vent valve opens and water replaces the air coming in from holes drilled in the very bottom of the tank.

Once the sub has submerged to the desired level close the dive valve and run as long as you like.It is not nessesary to blow ballast if yuor going to run at periscope depth but if you feel she might use a bit just flip the switch for a secound and a small blow will make her rise just a bit.

When you want to serface just open the serface valve and she risses and continues to rise to full parrade hight if needed or dock side hight.You may stop the rise at any time.

Pump up the air banks at any time prior to diving ,that is very important as no air is no go.

Vertualy no water or vapor enters the casing while compressing but a drain valve is fitted to the airbanks so that water can be removed.

Maintenace is simple ,oil the compressor ocationaly with compressor oil,and check valves and lines.

There is another solinoid valve in the sail that opens to let air into the caompressor or casing and closes when the compressor is off .

It is wirred to the same circuit.
All the cotrols to the system is simple ,done with microswitches and directly atached to the servos.That way no need for expensive elestronics and the radio is isolated from high voltage.

I have all of the parts necessary for you to build the system am\nd no time its done. Drawings and instuctions are included.

Diagram shows the lay out.

Sample price Compressor is 45.00$

Thank you for your interest.

Dave :D


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"I like submarine comanders ,they don't have time for bull!!" and
"Don't tell me it can't be done!"

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Postby Warpatroller » Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:16 pm

I'd thought about the possibility of a compressor setup, but it looks like a very large hull is needed to accommodate it.

You've got a lot of components in that diagram. I see 4 valves, 1 solenoid, 1 servo, failsafe, ballast tank, 2 pressure vessels, motor, compressor assembly, and you mention micro switches also.. I assume your $45 price is just for the compressor assembly with no motor or anything else? What does all the other stuff add up to?

How much current does that compressor draw when it is running?

Like most everything else your making, it looks like it will only fit inside a hull that will take at least a 4 inch O.D. tube, correct?

By the way, I should of listened to you about the Tracker III radio. Do you know of any 75Mhz radio system that is reliable to use for subs and costs less than $300 (maybe something with 6 channels, and would probably have to be a NON computer radio)? Your long ago recommended Futaba T9CAP converted to 75Mhz was $475 and beyond my means when I last checked on it. If I got it I wouldn't be able to afford the other components needed to get a sub in the water, it just adds up to more than I have to spend. There are loads of affordable 2.4Ghz computer radios, but 75Mhz are like white elephants with the few available costing well over $400 and way up from there. That is why I gambled on the Tracker III but lost.

Steve
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Postby aquadeep » Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:30 pm

Sorry to here that bad experiance witha the radio.I get that offen that Captaians didnt listen to me and now there sorry but se la vie.

Some experiance in the field always pays off.

I have never been disapointed with Futabas Quality and features but to find one on 75 might be a bit tugh less than what you have found but try RC Universe .com /clasifieds and Ebay I see once in a while nice 75 Futabas on there sites.

There is one radio you might consider and its made by Futaba and is for the VEX robots they are a computerized 6 channel radio that is very solid and easy to use ,all you will need is the 6 channel reciever or above would work just fine I use one got it new very cheap but I dont see them any more at surplus but if you go to VEX.com they can sell one.A futaba or even the after market recievers will work.

Also a used 9CAP or equivalent radio with the TX module changed to 75 will work as well probably the best way to go,the module can be perchased new from Futaba.I did the swap out on an older 9ZAP and it worked just fine and you can get iether PCM or not I like the PCM very rock solid TX/RX and full programable failsafes warn you if your getting out of range depth wise.


The ballast system uses 3 alike solinoids ,one oneway valve, 1 or multiple air banks ,thats up to the builder, 3 micrswitches,a compressor and 2 servos.
Some brass fittings and aluminum tubbing ,you can use other tubbing types I like aluminum aircraft tubbing it easy to work with and is very inexpensive and lasts along time.
Unfortunatly the compressor pictured does not fit into my casing but any 4in or above in diamiter it will.
I use stainless steel canisters for the casing on compressor bassed systems or PVC pipe.Not because of the suction pressure from the compressor that is not an issue but just accomodating the compressor,there are smaller ones avaialble as well and they would fit a 3.0 caseing and hence the smaller subs. :D

The compressor pictured is 45.00$ with a high speed /torgue motor 12 volt or even can run on 6 volts and draws about 2 to 4 amps 12 v depending on how much pressure you would need.No need to rubber mount iether it runs smoth.
Quite effecient considering how much pressure it puts out ,in just secunds 2 large air banks are filled with 60 or so PSI. :)

A complete kit with 2 airbanks would run 280.00$ depending on size and type of airbanks.

Dave Amur Ship Yard :D
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Postby Conch » Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:43 pm

Warpatroller wrote:
By the way, I should of listened to you about the Tracker III radio. Do you know of any 75Mhz radio system that is reliable to use for subs and costs less than $300 (maybe something with 6 channels, and would probably have to be a NON computer radio)? Your long ago recommended Futaba T9CAP converted to 75Mhz was $475 and beyond my means when I last checked on it. If I got it I wouldn't be able to afford the other components needed to get a sub in the water, it just adds up to more than I have to spend. There are loads of affordable 2.4Ghz computer radios, but 75Mhz are like white elephants with the few available costing well over $400 and way up from there. That is why I gambled on the Tracker III but lost.

Steve


Just got a HITEC laser 6 (75MHz) w/ RX, 2 servos, TX Batt & charger for $134 off amazon, a friend got the same TX w/Batt & Charger off ebay for $79. The amazon radio came from My Atomic, The ebay radio came from Tom's RC Simulator.
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Postby aquadeep » Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:53 am

The Hytec radios are good but Futaba is better quality and available PCM mode makes them superb for subs ,no shater at all ,all the time.
Get them new or used there definatly the best value as is JR.
I have compared them all and thats my findings.
:wink: Dave :D
"I like submarine comanders ,they don't have time for bull!!" and
"Don't tell me it can't be done!"

President Roosevelt

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Postby Andreas_dk » Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:42 pm

Hi Aquadeep

I am planning to make a sub with a similar system (actually my compressor seems the ecsact same), but I am having trouble finding good solenoid valves. Would you please tell me, where you got yours?

Andreas
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Postby Don Prince » Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:22 pm

I was thinking about using this compressor... What do you all think?

slime.com/product_111_Power_Sport_Tire_Inflator_(40001).html

Put a WWW. in front of my link. I could not get the link setup-up properly on this posting.

Regards,
Don_
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Postby aquadeep » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:23 pm

I have been using this type of air solinoid for many years now and has proven to be very reliable.

As you can imagine this valve is very important and must work every time.

I cant tell you where I get them from since the sources change all the time but I have them instock at 45.00$ plus shipping.

They are industrial grade units that last and are high quality.

6 to 12 volt operation nomaly closed so that when your sub is submerged there is no current draw and they can easily hold pressure to 100 psi.

I also have normaly open type valves.

Dave
This one is the smaller one and is not the one mentioned above but I will post a picture.
this one however will work as well as its ratted to 100 psi and is of exceptional quality. Same price.
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"I like submarine comanders ,they don't have time for bull!!" and
"Don't tell me it can't be done!"

President Roosevelt

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Postby aquadeep » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:35 pm

Don I haven't tried that particular unit but it looks like it might be good.

Depending in the mounting ability of the unit when stripped down and the quality and out put ,I can't realy give you an opinion.

My advice ,buy it and take it apart ,post pictures and run it to get an idea of its operation.


I have tried many compressors and found the one I posted to be the easest to mount and runs smothe and is very efecient and reliable long lasting unit.I have them also ready to go and preped.

There is also another good candidate that is very well made a bit larger and just as powerfull but I dont have them right now.
Even one that is digitaly controlled is available ,it turns off at a pre set psi with a digital mini readout.

Dave :D
"I like submarine comanders ,they don't have time for bull!!" and
"Don't tell me it can't be done!"

President Roosevelt

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Postby Don Prince » Wed May 13, 2009 9:30 pm

Hi Dave,

It will be awhile before I start building and installing components into my OTW 1/32 Type VIIc. I just retired and I'm in the process of getting my life setup for the next stage.

I have been looking at all options with the constraints of how I built the OTW hull. It is very rigid. I can remove the brass decks and install a 3.5 inch diameter by 36 inch long tube into the hull. However, I planned on breaking the WTC up into several sections. I am open to suggestions at this time (nothing is set into stone).

My email address is: dprince004@sc.rr.com

I would highly appreciate any suggestions and information in using a compressor type ballast system.

Regards,
Don_
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Postby aquadeep » Thu May 14, 2009 11:23 pm

Yes it is a great system ,simple to use and modify to your exact needs,from sensors to a wide variety of compressors.
It wont pollute the air nor the water and cost pennies to operate ,just like the Navy they dont bring her to port for ballast gas.Just keep going!

With your experiance and expertease you should build a wonderfull elegant dive system.

I like to use aircraft aluminum tubbing for the high side and compretion fittings mostly because its cheap and effective and light also easy to bend in tight places.
But stainless would very nice,and sure the air banks can be made with copper.
Ask all you want I am always happy to give my 2 cents worth.

The realism is outstanding in every way ,the operation just about the same thing as the full sized machine.Nice 8)

Dave :D
"I like submarine comanders ,they don't have time for bull!!" and
"Don't tell me it can't be done!"

President Roosevelt

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Postby aquadeep » Fri May 15, 2009 10:17 am

Can't see the image plaese repost.
"I like submarine comanders ,they don't have time for bull!!" and
"Don't tell me it can't be done!"

President Roosevelt

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Postby aquadeep » Fri May 15, 2009 11:08 am

Yes I see them now ,I have seen those before and are very good,how much are they ?

I would not use them too much as the swivel aspect is not necessary and the quick disconnect ,is nice but is it realy cost effective?

Compretion fittings are chaep and readily available at the local hardware store and work very well with aluminum tubbing or copper,I don't suggest copper be used though.
Stainless compretion fittings are very nice to but man there expensive.

But again put in what you want as long as your happy and it works.

Dave :D
"I like submarine comanders ,they don't have time for bull!!" and
"Don't tell me it can't be done!"

President Roosevelt

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