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Telemetry For Your Sub

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Telemetry For Your Sub

Postby aquadeep » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:37 pm

I dont know if anyone has tried this but I have always wanted to know how my sub was doing down in the deep usualy dark blue/green sea.

2 small units one the TX and the other a recorder brain that collects all the sensory data.Then sent to a small dashboard on your radio,no interference that I could detect just locate the TX as far away from the radio RX as possible and that does it,the antena is a very thin coated stainless whip that runs outside of the casing I have not tried it on the inside yet.

Well now I have found the way to do it and it works!and its been out there for a long time! Just not tested on RC Subs.

Eagle Tree Systems makes the fantastic system that can do so many things its incredible I had to try it in a sub.

I thought that only 900mgz would work not 2.4 or other fancier frequencies so I ordered the the 900 mgrz unit.

I first installed the free soft weare on my computer and then followed the instructions from there and even downloaded the manual for hookup ect.Great instructions and very detailed.

This sensor recorder tetemetry system is truly incredible in its scope of capabiliteies and eas of operation,just about every concieavable option can be displayed either on a small poratable dashboard or live on your laptop at the pond in real time,even GPS coordenents and grafing displayed to Google Earth!
Now I dont know if the GPS will work under water I havent perchased that option yet but I know it would work while on the serface,probably a few feet underwater.

You want depth ya thats right depth is posible since the sensors use barometric pressure and with some tweaking It is posible to get a read out live of the depth she is running at thugh not calibrated to meters or feet but a live representation of change in depth numericly,later I might be able to get the manufacturer to make the option in a depth gage ect read out. 8)
Even the internal pressure of the Casing can be detected !Ballast tank and pump pressures measured.Even speed is an option.

Important data such as RX battery pack performance and percetage remaining,Lipo users would know even the temperature of the pack,watts ,volts.
The dashboard unit displays 7 screens of sensor data.

If the radio RX battery gets to low the telemtry system shuts off and that way your model is safe and under control.
Another very neat thing is the user selectable warning beeps or alarms ,set to go off at lets say 5 ft depth a beep or selected number of beeps will warn if that limit is reached,same for battery volts,temp,ect.

A full range of safety warnings for you sub.


Also analog and digital sensors can be added and customized to the existing range of sensors that are available from Eagle Tree and very afordable.
Also great for bench testing and r and d work,get all the parimiters necessary viewed before you install and go to the lake. :D
Every part or module can be perchased as a kit or seperatly so that easy upgrade or multiple model tetemetry can be acomplished.
there is even a OSD or on screen disply for use with live vedeo that will display all of the above peramiters directly over your existing vedeo link.
The usual vedeo paramiters are used ,a bouy ect. is needed.

You wonder how much for all this capability about 380.00$ from Eagle Tree and its made in the USA.Comes with motor temp,RPM shaft or motor with mini magnets and sensor,CD,TX,RX,USB cable, Yharnes for even servo glitches,amps used,travel indiction,voltage,if you have abad servo it will show up.
Dash board unit ,pitot tube,tubbing and clip for the dashboard to radio attachment.

Great support and teck feeback.
Go to http://www.eagletreesystems.com/Plane/plane.html
I will be making more tests on this system and will post what I find.

Finaly telemtry that works for subs!

Prop RPM,motor RPM,setup by gear ratio and able to read 2 drives at once.

Dave Amur Ship Yard
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"I like submarine comanders ,they don't have time for bull!!" and
"Don't tell me it can't be done!"

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Postby raalst » Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:50 pm

sounds good !
Regards,

Ronald van Aalst

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Postby aquadeep » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:12 pm

A have made more tests today in my pool and with a casing waighted down so that it would sink to the bottom.
a 12 volt agm battery and rc reciever connected with a servo to exterior shaft and bellows to show movement,seagull system and sensors connected via a Y harnes and servo,it draws power from the BEC of the connected ESC no need to use a channel .

A motor just turning with no load and 2 mini supplied magnets crazy glued on a aluminum 1/8 shaft adapter just for the rpm test.Temp sensor tapped on exterior of motor.

Altimiter read out name shanged to DEP or to read depth and the pitot tube atached to the exit tube in the end cap,just a small K and S brass tube 1/2 inch by 2.00 mm .The silicone tube is very small but super sensative and can be cut to suit.Perfect for subs.The sensor is in the recorder.I found that the altimiter sensor works the best to show depth.
I held the casing at level to the serface of the water and as I slowly submerged it the DEP reading on the Dasboard unit went from 0 to negative nombers in exactly the same rate as I submerged in 3 degits then 4 as I went deeper ,I stoped and the nombers stoped,then raised it up and as I rose the numbers rolled back toward zero! Nice thats what I was looking for ! Later a calibrated sensor can be added to show in inches and feet or centimeters and meters. :D

From what I can tell as it is in tenths of an inch and very sensative and that is much better than expected. :D :D

I then speeded up the motor and RPM showed in 10fhs then hundreds and also very acurate and sensative.I ran the motor for a while and switched screens on the dashboard to show the motor temp A , B is not connected.At first it showed the temp inside of the casing then slowly it rose to 105F .

Lipos can be easily monitored this way and even there electrical paramiters without even having to splice any cercuits ,its done with induction sensors just clip them in place any where you want to measure and thats it.

I noticed no glitches or abnormal radio behavior with even the two antennas touching. :D

The range of the Seagull unit in clorinated water was only about 12 ft at 5ft depth. :roll:

In fresh water and at the lake it goes much greater and the signal strenght is always displayed live and a double beep sounds when out of range then when in range a single beep to get your attention ,nice.

No need to reset nothing just run. :D

Voltage to the Seagull must be between 5.00 and 5.7 above or below the unit stops tranmitting,which is no problem since most subs have large batteries. :)

This system uses very little power and the parts are so small they pose no waight problems.

I will be installing the system in the SB-2 and later the U-31 and will post the results. :D

Awaiting the arival of the Arkmodel U-32 ,should be here any day now. 8)

Dave Amur Ship Yard :D
"I like submarine comanders ,they don't have time for bull!!" and
"Don't tell me it can't be done!"

President Roosevelt

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Postby junglelord » Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:01 am

Thats so excellent. I think thats a must have for future use in the sport/hobby of RC Subs. Thanks for turning us on to this, which is funny because I was thinking that the subs need to have a GPS on them today, because on Discovery Canada, Daily Planet, was all about RC and they had airplanes with video and GPS. I said hey the Seaview has video, it needs GPS....and volia this thread appears...how syncronicity is that>?
:D
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Postby aquadeep » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:35 pm

That is quite a coincedence! I dont know if the GPS antena module will work underwater or at a usable depth but even at the serface is usable to locate where the dive was and coarse details all ploted on Google Earth.
Also a water alarm can be setup once I find the right sensor.

I am looking to find a mini PC that I can mount on or near the TX for the sub so that I can use the live action PC readout that is pictured above,that is very cool.

For now the Dash board will be fine :D
Dave :D
"I like submarine comanders ,they don't have time for bull!!" and
"Don't tell me it can't be done!"

President Roosevelt

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Postby aquadeep » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:49 pm

Just finished the first run test with RPM,motor temp and Depth in my pool and the U-31 by Robbe and alot of clorine. :eek:

The results are fantastic! :) :) The depth read out is so sensative, I think in the 10nths of an inch or in cm ,just one or so dowm it starts to show a change and is directly related to the rate of decsent or rise ,at a perfect hover the readout stops only when the sub stops movement ,talk about preciese! :) Very fun to watch all the peramiters. :cool:

I then ran the motor and RPM was displayed starting at 0 and rose exactly in proportion to the motor speed input.I am using 2 magnets and the sensor is calibrated for 2 magnets on a 3.5 gearbox ,but I changed my sub to the U-31 Robbe for the test and it has a different gear ratio so the readout is not accurate.
Easy to change iether add magnets and reprogram the sensor ,useing a mechanical shaft tachometer that I have to calibrate the sensor since I dont know the gear ratio of the Dewalt planetary gear drive unit.

As I ran the motor with the subs nose against the pools edge I went to full cruise and slowly the motor temp started going up from ambient temp to 110f ,my motors are watercooled so imagine how hot ones get without it closed up in a sub.

Even with another temp sensor the ESC,main battery or more ,can be monitored .No more burned out electronics,or even pumps that offen run hot or if jam would show a spike in temp.All thse sensors can be individualy alarmed with audible warnings you set in varios modes ,high and low,even the depth has its setable warning point!
Minitor pressure in the ballast system no problem and easy.

I set up my U-31 with the supllied sensors above in 2 hours ,just drill the pasthuoghs for the antenna and one for the depth sensor in the aft cap.I use a small brass tube for the depth sensor tube,about 2.0mm or smaller is all thats needed.The lenght of the sensor tube makes no difference just be sure it does not come off as a leak would occure.

Goop makes the seal and thats it for those 2 items.The Rpm sensor is the funist to install as the mini magnets are very strong and tiny easy to loose.
With just a drop of CA the magnets are installed on the prop shaft with a plastic tweaser if not you wont get it done.
The RPM sensor is also very tiny and has a rectangular shape and must be positioned iether along the face with no righting or at the tip just 1-2 mm gap once glued in place check the readout with a motor spin up.

This system is just simply too cool to be true yet here it is a comprehensive easy to use fuly upgradable telemetry system for our subs,its about time!

You can still use all the other levelers ect it does not interfear at all.

On the serface without a pertruding antenna I still had sinal of about 60 percent at around 400 feet! I could not go ferther away at that time.

I then sent the sub to the bottom of 5ft in clorinated water and only got a signal of 12 ft radiuse.

In fresh it went way up but the depth of my pond is only 4ft and the signal radiuse incresed to about 250 ft ,not bad since we mostly run submerged in close quarters.

I imagene that an antenna to the sail masts would increase the submerged range and then there is even a special high gain anrenna available but I dont see any need for it.

You can set the units power of TX to high or low I ues high.

GPS would be very usefull I think on the RC sub even if only a few feet in depth is available ,the serface course would be usefull especialy if there is a gray lady down and depth wuld be known.

The antenna could be mounted on the exterior of the hull and recessed and painted to match the hull.There is one even smaller antenna for under caoul mounting ,humm maybe thats the one or even mounted up on a mast to look like a top hat antenna or there likes?


Man what a great device!

I am very happy and intreged that I tyied it and sorry that I did not try it years ago when it first came out,Oh well.

Im going to order the amps,voltage sensors for the main battery and motor use.

Dave Amur Ship Yard :)
"I like submarine comanders ,they don't have time for bull!!" and
"Don't tell me it can't be done!"

President Roosevelt

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Postby junglelord » Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:23 am

That is one cool read. Especially the ability to take this item and plug and play.
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Postby aquadeep » Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:20 pm

Yes its that easy! And cost effective.
"I like submarine comanders ,they don't have time for bull!!" and
"Don't tell me it can't be done!"

President Roosevelt

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Postby aquadeep » Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:57 pm

I will be offering this option on all casing orders ,guys this system is just the ticket for our subs!

Dave :D
"I like submarine comanders ,they don't have time for bull!!" and
"Don't tell me it can't be done!"

President Roosevelt

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Postby aquadeep » Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:35 pm

Today I have some great news!!

I went to the local pond to test the Seagull Telemetry system on the Robbe U-31 thats been modified to dive staticly.

I just turned on the remote,then the dashboard mounted on the TXs antenna great for esy veiwing and set the sub out for the run.

As soon as the sub went in the water the DEPTH sensor pictup the change in pressure and at a standstill it showed 2 digits ,then I pushed the stern down a bit just a few inches and it even showed the change with larger double digit readuot!

I then moved the thraughtle forward and the RPM started being displayed ,now much more acurate with an easy re calibration and 2 more suplied magnets placed on the main drive shaft.
Calibrated with a shaft mechanical tack.
Well the RPM went up to first in double digits then into 100 plus but not into 200 since its a large prop and this sub flies at half stick!
Motor temp also started at ambient and slowly after a while went up to 110F at cruise.

Well the best part is the depth reading ,I hit the dive switch and she began to dive at slow ahaed ,the reading emediatly started showing a negative number and in exact relation to the rate of descent ,down past the masts she went and then 3 degits now into the hundreths and constantly increasing ,just like a depth gage!
I knew I was getting close to the bottom of the shalow pond of about 5 ft and once the readings stoped I knew she was on the bottom!The water is geen as can be no visual but I knew she was on the bottom and how deep that area is by the read out, it read in 4 digits at the bottom.I figure that its reading in cms or so equivalents.
Then serfaceing ,I knew she was on her way back up by the readings becoming smaller and at an increasing rate!WOW thats nice and not to mention very cool and reasuring that she is on the move.

The range on the serface is abuot 450 ft with the setup I did the antena is bellow the water line and horizontal.I would imagine it would be greater if in a mast or elongated ,I might do that later.
At depth the range decreases alot but still usable at about 100 to 150 ft not bad!

The 9 volt battery in the dashboard does not last more than 90 min or so but it might have been a bad batery,but its possible and recomended by the maker to increase run time with a larger higher voltage one up to 15 volts.A small heli lipo would work just fine and I will do that.

The temp is very acurate and sensative as well,and will save alot of motors and ESCs Im sure.

I am totaly sold on this system for my subs and wont go to the pond without it and will increase the sensors and types to fully instrumentize the sub.
On multiple subs I would leave in the sensors and just move the recorder and TX unit and all the custom taylord settings are pre programed in the set up and is retreavable at any time to go into the next sub.
And buy other recorders and sensors and no need for another dashboard.
Eventualy I will try the GPS if it works great ,mostly for course and ground/water speed and distance to home with home arrow,but if not just return it,no bigie.

Fellow Captains this is to me one of the Holly grails of RC Subs ,and it works!

Dave Amur SUB Yard
"I like submarine comanders ,they don't have time for bull!!" and
"Don't tell me it can't be done!"

President Roosevelt

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Postby GreyAkula52 » Tue May 05, 2009 11:46 am

Dave,
Very Interested In Your Work. Please Ping Me Back.
I Have Wanted To do This In My Models (all 1/48 Scale )
From the start. I did Not Realize these Tools Were Out there.

Andre ( GreyAkula52 )
Included One Of My Boats Building Right Now.
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It Would Be Fantastic To Mount Hardware to enable GPS / Telemetry / Hardware Status To Be Usable By the Driver. Truly This Would Be The
Realm Of Movie Majic!
Andre S. Burgess, P.E.
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Postby aquadeep » Thu May 07, 2009 11:49 am

PM sent :D
"I like submarine comanders ,they don't have time for bull!!" and
"Don't tell me it can't be done!"

President Roosevelt

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Postby Andreas_dk » Sat May 16, 2009 4:15 pm

Hi, this sounds fantastic.

Does anyone know if its possible to transmit a video signal with this kitt?

Does anyone know of problems with two or more sets running at the same time?

I am in the planning phase of an equavalent system based on an acoustic link. (using sound waves to transmitt data). At the moment, my data rate seems high enought for a video signal with 256-colors 2 frames per second and a resolution of 176x144, and as many sensors as you like. (a resolution of 65536 (16 bit) per sensor is equavalent to 2 pixels).
My system (on the receiver end) will use USB and some home made application on a laptop to show video signal and sensor read-outs.
I am currently going for a speed of 60kbyte per second.
Using soundwaves removes the need for government approval of any kind. The rather low frequence should also result in a very long transmission range in water.

Andreas
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Postby aquadeep » Mon May 18, 2009 12:14 am

Yes this system is especialy made for video overlay and cost only 40.00 bucks extra for the small added unit,any camarra can be used as is done on aircraft ect.
Im getting that on my sub soon and then GPS expander as well.

With your great deal of knowledge with electronics I would redirect to developing sensors that are taylored to be connected to this system and to the RC SUB needs ,like a sensor read out with cm read out ect. or water detection should be very easy as all of the alarm fasciliteis are already in the softweare,just need somone with more electronic expertease to pull it of,because the basic system is very sound and well made and is a well acsepted form of telemtry in the scientific circles for years now,your research into useing sound is good also,but it would be nice to get this one even more perfected,there other ones out there also but are not nearly as cost effective.see this wow :D :D :D
http://www.eagletreesystems.com/OSD/OSD-pro.htm
Nice work keep it up :D
As one Capyain put it "its the cats meow" to me its a Tigers roar and movie majick to boot:D
Dave :D
"I like submarine comanders ,they don't have time for bull!!" and
"Don't tell me it can't be done!"

President Roosevelt

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Postby Andreas_dk » Mon May 18, 2009 7:27 am

Hi again.

I am sorry to say, but it seems this system only adds to a video signal and then relies on the original video transmitter, and not the seagull transmitter unit.
To be honest standard (for example PAL) video transmission on 900mHz system sounds just too good, and especially for that price and power consumption.

I see no way of connecting a camera to the seagull. Please check it yourself once again, if system like this could transmit video signals, then I don't want to develop my own system, then I would focus on sensors for your subs instead.

Andreas
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