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Water Pump, what options are there?

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Water Pump, what options are there?

Postby rockhopper037 » Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:39 pm

I know there are a few options to pump air for a ballast system, but what options are there to pump water?
Has anyone ever used a pump from a car windscreen washer?

Thanks
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Postby junglelord » Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:15 pm

Yes I have read of people using a car windshield washer pump.
Try this vendor for a ready to run water ballast system
http://www.rpmtech1.com/

Mikes Subworks sells your materials if you want to build your own.
http://www.mikessubworks.com/page1.html

Truly a cheap and efficent method that involves taking water into a bladder bag $5. A simple two way fuel pump $25. Two valves from a aquarium shop, about $3. You got a home made static dive, on the dime.
8)

I was first introduced to this method from a member on another site for my Robbe Seawolf named Big Sax.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302419

I have recently found a member from South America, I believe, that made the same idea but with the WD 40 stem. This stem allows faster drainage of the bladder bag with air at the surface.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8518054/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8543089/tm.htm
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Postby rockhopper037 » Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:47 am

Thanks Junglelord,

I have read the thread about the guy using the WD40 tube, but didnt fully understand the principle
Is there a diagram that explains the system better?

Rockhopper
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Postby junglelord » Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:27 am

On the link to the Robbe Seawolf with BigSax has pics.
The simple WD 40 spout is basicly a vaccum Snort added to the idea.
The periscope induction of air via the vaccum is simple.
The bag is of course in the WTC. This is the one thing that scares people.
Yet I have not heard of one leaking or breaking.
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Postby tabledancer » Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:13 pm

My new WTC pumps water on board,but I can`t tell you how good it works yet as it isn`t up and running yet.You might want to check with Aquadeep as to where you can jet a pump,thats who built my new system.



TD :wink:
Don`t forget,its going to be dark tonite.
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Postby rockhopper037 » Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:22 pm

Junglelord, does this look correct?
Should there be any one way valves?
Image
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Postby junglelord » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:36 pm

Image

Basicly the diagram above shows an "IN" which is a two way valve actually. The second valve is a one way valve which is incase of overfill from a runaway motor. The motor runs both ways on a three way switch. The two valves are from aquarium shops for fish and cost about $2. Big Sax used a airstone for the in/out valve. The other valve is a one way air valve, together about $4.


Here is the information on that question to Big Sax. Forgive the reply as it was translated.


My system is too simple, two rubber bag (pediatric bags for urine) over the components and filled/emptied from a modified robbe pump with speed 400 6V, in order to dive its require approximately 250/300 grams...I have 2 bags for total 250cc but at 150/200cc the sub dive static,



>1.Can the 6V robbe water pump operate in both directions, i.e pump water into and drain water out of tank?



Yes, the pump works filling up or drain water out of tank, I have connected a simple "Duo switch robbe" to a channel of the radio (with a 3 position switch) it supplies to make to turn the motor in the two senses being filled up or emptying.(The pump has two gears that turning in a sense send the water within and inverting the sense they send it outside.)



>2.when the boat surfaces, the water should be pumped out from the tank, but there may be a pressure difference between tank and sea depth, so will this problem affect >the pumping process?



...no, the pump is too strong



should I install the one way valve at the inlet? Where can I find these type of valve?

yes I installed a income water filter (on italian: ingresso acqua) and a oneway valve for the rubber-tank overpressure (valvola di non ritorno) ... this is the scheme:

http://www.saxxx.it/sub/imgsub/sw_schema.jpg


I am a fish-tank entusiast and the one way valve is a simple (and ultraeconomic) acquarium valve for air-bubble also the water-filter income e' from fish-tank, is a simply air-stone ... all two just 1/2 dollars ....the one way valve is a security optional, for me not optional....,in normal condition I stop pump when the sub dives (as soon when water bathes the bridge) but if you ave a failure the pump is out of control and if not ave a valve the bags burst and water fills up the sub... sinking it!!!

For one way valve I used a simply acquarium air valve for 2 dollars, the sub coast a lot more also my IN filter is a acquarium airstone.

Image

Is there a valve inside the pump so that when the pump is off, no water can enter the bags?

no... but not going beyond the 2/3 meters the water pressure is insufficient in order to pass the pump and to fill up the bags, indeed the elasticity of the bags always stretches to make to exit the water and to emerge, much better!

Image


http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthre ... 419&page=2


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Postby rockhopper037 » Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:46 pm

Junglelord

So if we take BigSax's idea and add rva1945's WD40 tube is this what we get?
Image
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Postby junglelord » Sun Mar 22, 2009 6:23 pm

Thats it exactly.
I know that he just used RV and attached the WD 40 tube to the bladder bag which went to the surface of the periscope on the sail.
I did a search for all his post.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/community/pro ... mid=212726
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Postby Albion » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:45 am

what is the purpose of the small tube? To prevent the pump running with a delfated bag and causing vacuum?
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Postby rockhopper037 » Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:24 am

OK, so now i have the correct design, what peice of electronics do i need in order to be able to run the pump in both directions?
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Postby junglelord » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:00 am

Albion wrote:what is the purpose of the small tube? To prevent the pump running with a delfated bag and causing vacuum?
Allows the bag to drain faster when it hits air via the periscope.
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Postby redboat219 » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:59 pm

what's the purpose of the one-way valve?
"Make it simple, make it strong-and make it work!" - Mikhail Mil
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Postby junglelord » Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:33 pm

This prevents the bag from an overfill.
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Postby aquadeep » Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:00 pm

There are several types available depending on there size and aplications.

The windsheild washer pump ,it can be used in the wet after its sealed 12 or 6 v and has non metal gears ,lasts a long time and produces plenty of pressure and will fill a liter in about 25 secounds.
Great for hydraulics such as masts and retracting dive planes.
Small to large ballast tanks.
Scale like diving and serfaceing.Must use inline filter.


Mini paristolick pump is the prefered pump since it reqires no solinoid to prevent back flow from the ballast tank and produces alot of pressure.
It is slower than gear pumps but it wont jam up with dirt and is easy to service.Cost more but then no solinoid valve required.
Used mostly in bladder type dive systems and in some cases a pressure sensor must be used or in the above diagram just a one way valve .

By the way the black and clear one way valve shown in the picture above is a good little valve I use them as standard after extensive testing but best of all is that they can be opened by twisting the 2 halfs apart ,has threads and the inner valve claened or serviced ,I have not found one that can do that chaeper.

There are many gear pumps outthere but after spending alot of time and money the best pump for the money is the one showed its used on Volvos 850 s .I have them available 35.00$

Also diafram and piston types but they where not that efecient or cost too much.

Dave Amur Ship Yard :D

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