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operating front planes?

R/C Submarine modelers

Postby aquadeep » Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:31 pm

Just have a servo in the forward section of the casing,thats what im doing.

Dave :D
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Postby subcaptian » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:46 am

I am building a 1/144 scale Seawolf, but I am trying to fit as many scale options in it as possible, I have even drawn up ideas for a VERY, VERY small torpedo system. It involves a reed switch instead of compressed air. I need to know if adding the bow planes would affect the performance much. I am adding them for scale, but will they work well?

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Postby Wayne Frey » Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:40 am

Merrimen's conversion kit has working planes, but others do not.
Go to the subron 5 link and click on Wayne's Seawolf. Down there ,somewhere,there is a post showing my 1/44 Seawolf on video.
I fixed the front planes and it runs just fine.
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Postby aquadeep » Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:20 pm

Subcaptain
As seen above Forward planes are very important if you want your sub to performe more preciesly under water instead of like a torpedo.I have built both ways and when ever possible even small ones make a huge difference in overall performance especialy in keeping a level bubble at periscope depth.
And is well worth the effort.
Try a magnetic link so that connection is done in a blind area or difficult instalation as is on the Robbe SeaWolf,i used a watertight servo for years in the uper bow and wired through the front end cap with an extention to the Y harness since I operate the front and rear planes on one stick and gives preciese control.
Think of it like a biplane versus a monoplane ,the biplane always turns sharper and out manuevers the monoplane.
Even the Akula II has tiny planes and they make a difference.

Dave :D
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Postby Wayne Frey » Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:42 pm

I agree. If the boat is balanced well, even small planes make a difference on hulls like the Akula II. But even the Akula is a larger hull.
Trim is everything. I remember seeing Crozier's Permit in a hover--perfect balance-. Then Thor placed a penny on it while it was hovering just under the surface. She started sinking to the bottom immediately!
Cool stuff.
Anyway, when balanced, all forces acted upon the hull effect it. A more stable boat I have never seen the Jeff's Small World Blueback. But it has no bow plane action going on. Yet, it can cut around at periscope depth with one finger driving the transmitter all day long.
In the smaller boats, like the Trumpetor Seawolf, it again, has been done. However, look here :

http://vimeo.com/2479697

With a decent trim on setup, (thank you Steve), she runs good enough with fixed planes. Proven.
It will also allow more room for anything else you want to add in the front to go with fixed bow planes.Because one thing is for sure, room is precious when you start adding stuff to that small of a hull.
It comes down to your choice.That is what makes this hobby interesting.
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Postby aquadeep » Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:57 pm

Yes it does make it interesting in our hobby but on full size subs of which most of them have forward planes the engineers desighne them for good reasons.
Greater control is there aim.

Just my observation Dave :D
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Postby Slats » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:17 pm

hey Rich,
that is one very nice looking Robbe modified seawolf.

Re back on the plane question....one factor here is that with the Robbe seawolf your stern planes are even more sensitive than what most of us have, since the control surfaces are behind the prop. Most modern nuke subs of course have the planes ahead of the prop. Perhaps therefore the bow planes might be of some assistance in minor depth changes. As stated before though I find on boats that are relatively small like my Alfa the bow planes have virtually zero affect.

A case of suck it and see. let us know how it works out.

John
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Postby subcaptian » Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:37 am

Well, I didn't want to do a magnetic link, but this is what I had in mind.
Image
It would have one servo with a generic horn on it like this.
Image
So if the servo pushed on the bow planes down, the stern planes would go up, and vice-versa.
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Bow planes

Postby Mike Dory » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:25 pm

Guy's - I have a Small Worlds model of the U.S.S. Blueback (that everyone has seen) and just to be differnt, I did it up as she looked in 1958 with the bow planes working on the bow. This made all the difference in controling the boat . It was so good that I put in an auto pitch control on the rear planes and have them "standing alone" The set up is great. You could not have asked for a better control of a boat. I have the forward planes being pulled back by a rubberband so the servo only has to push. Several of us were up at the Onterio Calif. AMA hobby show, this last January (They had a 50 x 50x 2 1/2 Ft. pool for us guy's to run our boats in, Had a great time letting the kids run the boats it was so easy to control and the look on the faces of these kids was worth anything to see. I had several copies of The Subcommittee Report lying around on the display table and one of the father's of these kids, up and gave me $20.00, just to have a copy of one. I told him he could have for free but he wouldn't have it that way, saying it worth alot to him. Lots of fun and great times......Best Wishes .....Mike Dory
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