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Best ballast system

R/C Submarine modelers

Postby ThierryC » Sat Feb 22, 2003 8:37 pm

Hi all

I am looking at the various ballast systems. I don't want to use propel, piston or pump, And I am kinda torn between compressor and CO2 system.
I know that the compressor system is what the real ones use, and I can do as many dives as I want as long as the batteries are ok, also I can use the compressed air for hydrolics and other fun stuff like torpedoes, etc...
However it is a bit on the pricey side and require a good dose of electronic to implement everything I want.
On the other hand a CO2 system is cheaper, not as complex, and the parts are available at any paintball shop.
The problem is that I have to count my dives, the pressure is pretty high which can be dangerous in case of problems.

Let me know what you think.
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Postby Rockpile » Sat Feb 22, 2003 9:50 pm

Hi Thierry C,
I have a CO2 system in my Type XXIII. It works very well, but was a bit more expensive then the compressor system that I have for my 1/32P Fleetboat. The systems are almost the same . The biggest difference was the regulator for the CO2 system which cost anywere from $79.00 to $165.00. The compressor cost me just over $35.00 and will only charge the system to 225 PSI (if you are lucky). Most of the time I only get a charge of about 125 PSI. I use an electric pressure switch on the tank that is set for 110 PSI. That switch was only $18.00 at Home Depot. All the other valves and solenoid are the same in both the CO2 and the Compressor system. If you use the clippard solenoid they have a built in safety valve that pops at 125 PSI. Send me an e-mail if you have anymore questions.
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Postby Art Broder » Mon Feb 24, 2003 2:19 am

:O ThierryC,
E-mail me for info on the Recirculating Compressed Air Ballast System.
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Postby dietzer » Mon Feb 24, 2003 4:58 pm

Thierry,

I'm new to R/C subs, but isn't it possible to just use the compressor to empty the air out of the ballast tank and into a storage tank ? Then you shouldn't need 120 PSI air pressure for your ballast system. And the smaller the pressure, the smaller the compressor, the less you run the compressor, the faster you're ready to dive again, the more battery time you have, etc.

I've been thinking about using the small cans of compressed air found in bike shops for emergency inflators. These have enough air to pump up one or two bike tires (most are CO2, but a couple are simply compressed air). Maybe use two of these cans of compressed air (they're not much bigger than a medicine bottle); one for normal usage and one reservered for emergency blows. Then just use the compressor to empty the ballast tank back into the normal storage can. This should limit the air pressure to normal tire pressure, 35 PSI or less. Surely that's enough pressure to empty a ballast tank of water...

Just a thought. Feel free to tell me I'm crazy -- my wife does so frequently!

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Postby ThierryC » Mon Feb 24, 2003 5:10 pm

I am interested in the idea of having an air compressor or cannister of CO2 at high pressure because I plan on using the compressed air to control actuactors (periscopes, dive planes retracts, etc...), to charge the torpdoes with the compressed air and to expell out them out of the hull.
If I use a recirculating compressed air system I would not be able to use that air for anything but blowing the ballast tanks.
Dietzer, what you are describing is pretty much the system that Art is using :-)
It is a good idea but cannot provide me with HP air
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Postby Sub culture » Tue Feb 25, 2003 5:22 am

I'd be inclined to use a combination of both systems.

I am a personal fan of the recirculating compressed air system, and it is the most used system here in the UK.
Use CO2 solely for the torpedo firing.
Or you could use baby pager motors for propulsion- depending on scale of course!

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Want to dive your boat in crystal clear water? Then you had better Dive-in- http://www.diveintomodelsubmarines.co.uk
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Postby ThierryC » Tue Feb 25, 2003 4:17 pm

The problem with low pressure is that I need a pretty big storage tank, my ballast tank is about 4L, if I use air at 35psi this means that I will need a storage tank of 1.3L. I think that such a big storage is a waste of space, and that by using a higher compression I could get a smaller storage tank and more blows out of one fill.
Unless I am wrong in the way I calculate the volume/pressure ratio.




Edited By ThierryC on 1046204366
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Postby Guardian » Wed Mar 26, 2003 1:56 pm

Art I tried sending you a pm and it would not allow it for some stupid reason :angry: any way I would love to know more about Recirculating Compressed Air Ballast Systems. So please feel free to e-mail me,

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Postby JWLaRue » Wed Mar 26, 2003 4:42 pm

Mike,

Another source of information (as well as complete dive modules) for the recirc. ballast type would be Bob Dimmack of OTW. I've got one in my 1/32nd scale Type VIIC and *really* like it.

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Postby Guardian » Wed Mar 26, 2003 4:54 pm

Jeff what is the price for these ballast systems ? is there a site ?
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Postby sam reichart » Wed Mar 26, 2003 6:03 pm

http://www.otwdesigns.com/ppj.htm

pricing and description can be found there.
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Postby JWLaRue » Wed Mar 26, 2003 6:47 pm

The OTW web site is: www.otwdesigns.com

Pricing information can be found on the OTW web site.

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Postby Art Broder » Wed Mar 26, 2003 8:24 pm

:O Mike and others,
My Recirculating Compressed Air Ballast System is a simple do-it-yourself project.
I take the compressor (pump) out of an AUTOMATIC, SELF INFLATING, blood pressure machine, purchased from any discount pharmacy,(around $50.) and install it in my WTC. I wire it to a Sub Tech SES II switch, for on-off control. I use a "Y" connector from the receiver, on the same radio channel, which goes to a servo with a cam, which depresses a modified tire valve.
The silicone tubing from the pump has a "T" connector in the line, inside the WTC. One line of the tubing from the "T" sends air out through a brass tube in the end cap into a rubber bladder in the free flood area to inflate it (and surface). The other side of the "T" connector tubing goes to the servo cam/valve inside the WTC, to release the air from the bladder back into the WTC (and allow diving). Since the same air is thus "Recirculating", new air does not have to be snorkeled, no compressed air tanks are necessary, and no high pressure or hand freezing chemicals need to be replenished.

If you don't have time to wait for an illustrated, detailed article to appear, and need further information quickly, e-mail me with any questions you may have.
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Postby Feet Wet » Wed Mar 26, 2003 8:33 pm

Hi Thieery,
I'm using CO2 in one of my boats and it does work for ballast, but I'm not convinced its the way to go for scpoes and the like.Seal wear seems to be an issue with such cold gas.I'd like to offer another idea.compressed air. This works great for ballast control and scopes.It can also be dialed down to low pressure. Only two drawbacks,cost and the need for scuba certification to refill the tank.If you're interested e-mail me and I'll send pics and specifics. :p
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Postby Guardian » Wed Mar 26, 2003 8:57 pm

Art I can't find you e-mail address any where ? ! could you post it or e-mail me I have a few questions for you
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